2013 R59S, so slightly stiffer than R56 rear stock. I swapped to non run flats, 215/45R17s, on JCW wheels. Already did the free camber trick, which did help corner speeds quite a bit. I'm generally pretty happy with it now, however there are two things I'd like to fix.

1: Significant front end lift at full power, throwing all the weight to the rear.
2: Significant body roll of the front of the car.

I can already get the car to rotate very easily, I will not do a rear sway bar, the go to answer for the R56 crowd. My 59 can easily be held in a 4 wheel drift and steered with the throttle as is, it has plenty of lift throttle oversteer near the limit.

I daily the car, but do play quite a bit on curvy roads. What I don't want is a hard suspension, I just want properly damped suspension, something that isn't jarring and I don't really have any interest in lowering the car.

Suggestions?

 

Keep the stock springs, get a set of Koni yellows or Bilstein B8 shocks, and consider a front sway bar upgrade. The shocks should help with some weight transfer. The front sway bar will help keep the front wheels in the right position for max grip, and help with steering response.

 

Are the B8s an upgrade over the suspension that came on the S models? I only ask because they are named "OEM replacement", however, that doesn't mean the same damping rates, naturally.

 

The Bilstein B4's are factory replacements. The B6's have stiffer valving, and would be considered a heavy duty replacement. The B8's have the same damping as the B6's, but have a different shaft to be better suited to lowering springs.

 

Perfect response, thanks Njaremka!

 

Sounds to me like the damping in your shocks is not working at all, too soft on both compression and rebound.

4 wheel drift? I don't think that's possible in a FWD car. I can get my R56 to slide all 4 wheels if I push it really, really hard at the track, but no way I'd ever push it that hard on the street. If you have lift throttle oversteer, then either you already have a too stiff RSB or there's something wrong with your alignment. Lifting will cause weight transfer to the front wheels and reduce understeer, you should be able to adjust your line through a corner wider or tighter with the throttle, but if you lift and the back comes around that's going to bite you.

I agree with njaremka, time for new shocks. You didn't say if you have owned the car from new or bought it used, if you bought it used, then check if the RSB is stock. AFter the new shocks are installed, you'll need an alignment anyway, have the shop set it for maximum possible negative camber up front and factory spec in the back.

 

I have new B8's on their way, already have H&R springs and 22mm rear sway bar installed, still have to install front H&R 25mm bar. I really noticed a big difference by just installing the rear bar, definitely helps with front end push. Hopefully the B*'s and front sway bar will alleviate my front end lift and traction issues I have. Will let you know after the parts are installed.

 

Currently planning on B6s, Alta PSRS at 1.5° added caster, IE fixed camber plates and H&R front sway bar. Should get the front end as planted as it's going to be on stock springs, then I can adjust the rear based on how far behind (or not) it is on grip relative to the front.

I have an alignment on the 26th to ensure my "baseline" is correct and that I'm not working around a miss-adjusted alignment. The car only really pushes in one situation, mid-corner on a long up-hill turn, if I go in slow and build speed on a long up-hill turn (like a 270° freeway on-ramp) it will eventually reach a point where it pushes. Most of the push can be eliminated by approaching fast, sharp turn in, simultaneous lift throttle (briefly) and reapply smoothly and the rear end will rotate around, then can be balanced in that position all the way round.

In contrast to my F56, the F56 will understeer long before the R59 and the rear is much harder to get to do what I want it to. The difference in the rear end mobility was noted in a few reviews when the Coupe and Roadster were first appearing.

 

I've read several times that the PSRS is harsh and not always durable. In a past car I've installed powerflex lower control arm bushings and I was really happy. Those will not give you the additional caster you desire, though.

I also saw in one post that the GP2 had longer slots in the strut towers for additional camber. When I had my struts out, extended the slots about 3/8" toward the center of the car. Using IE fixed upper mounts, and pushing the mounts as far inboard as would still allow me to torque the strut nut, I was at 1.9/2.0 camber on the front. I haven't noticed any excessive tire wear at this setting, but the turn in is significantly better.

Its a tangent from your original post, but I also notice a significant improvement in stiffness with a TSW undercar brace, if you can tolerate lower ground clearance. Just general feel of the car, and the fact that the car lifts evenly front to rear when jacking the car using the front lift point, tells me that the car is stiffer. And I notice the difference when I remove it for the winter.

Have fun,
Mike

 

And last time I aligned the car, I had the rear camber reduced to 1 degree negative. I'm happy with factory toe settings. I'm far from a racecar driver, but I'm pretty happy with this.

Good luck
Mike

 

Good input Mike, thanks! I've been considering the bracing as well, nice to hear some positive feedback on it. I can love with lower, the 215s lifted the car a little higher than the 205s so there's space.

With how relatively inexpensive the PSRS are, I'm just going to chance it, if they do turn out to be an NVH issue I'll do powerflex.

 

BTW, the IE fixed camber plates will raise the car slightly. They are 1/4" thick plates on top of the normal bushings. So it will raise the front about 1/4".

And not that I'm trying to spend more of your money, but if you are dropping the subframe to replace the LCA bushings, you should replace the bushings on the front sway bar (or put a larger bar on it?). On my previous MINI, I had to drop the subframe to get the bushings off. do some research to see if they have a reliable way to replace them without dropping the subframe now, its quite a bit of work.

Have fun,
Mike

 

As a reference I remembered I'd recorded some AutoX when the car was new to me and very close to stock. One of the clips is below, you can see, with just a breath of brake pedal input the car is very easily provoked into oversteer, I think the R59 vs R56 difference is possibly more pronounced than some may assume.


After doing further research, I've revised my plan. Fortune Auto 500s are now the plan, because, it just plain makes more financial sense than buying it all piecemeal, plus the option to upgrade to 510 internals and -3 camber potential to suit RE-71s if I ever get serious about AutoX.

PSRS are being substituted with WMW poly caster adjusted bushings for a number of reasons, thanks for the suggestion, it's both cheaper and shouldn't have the issues PSRS sometimes have.

 

 

 

In my old BMW E30 and then E36, in an autocross slalom I could use my right foot to hang the back end out as far as I wanted, countersteer and lift slightly to recover, then do the same going the opposite way. Not fast, though great fun. But that was a RWD car. The only way I can get the back of my R56S to break loose on any normal dry asphalt surface is to turn the wheel then yank the E-brake. On almost all new cars, the set up from the factory is for understeer because most drivers can't deal with oversteer, so the manufacturers play it safe. Inherent understeer is especially true for front engine, front wheel drive cars. Even assuming that the R59 is lighter in the back than the R56, if you are nearly spinning so easily then something is wrong.

1) as I said above - check your alignment. If you have even slight rear toe-out that could be the problem. There have been a couple of threads by guys who track their MINIs who have had "tail happy" problems where rear toe-out has been the cause. Also check the rear camber.
2) if your shocks are shot, then braking would cause the front end to dive, the back end to lift, and the reduced force on the rear tires could cause a loss of grip that would make the back end come loose.
3) maybe the previous owner installed an aftermarket rear sway bar and has it set too stiff.
4) there's an issue with your brakes where the rear brakes are working much better than the front. I think this is really unlikely.
5) I'm assuming that your rear tires are in reasonable shape and have similar wear as the fronts.

Figure this out and fix it! Just think about what might happen if you have to make an emergency lane change on a rainy day.

 

The video I posted above was with 7700 miles on the car, like new run flats, stock alignment, stock suspension.

The majority of the issue was actually corrected with the replacement of the run flats with actual decent summer tires.

Weight bias is 63/37 according to mini, so, slightly more forward than the R56.

After speaking with WMW I have an upgrade path, that should plant the front end more, which should fix all the issues I'm having.

I guess I'll find out in March when AutoX starts

I do appreciate all the input everyone's provided, it's helped me in what/where/how to research parts, strengths, quirks and weaknesses inherent in the platform.

 

 

Stiffer front sway bar seems to be a matter of personal preference, I have never felt a need for it but there are a couple of guys here who insist it is the way to go. Yeah so long as you have the subframe out, if you're going to do it now is the time. Let us know how it affects the car.

I have a 22mm solid RSB on the softest setting, that plus 2 deg camber all around works really well for me on the street and track..I haven't tried it autocrossing. I would probably stiffen up the rear bar for more rotation. One huge benefit from driving on the track is I know how the car reacts at high speed and high cornering forces so I'm not worried about what might happen if I have to take sudden evasive action on the highway.

OP, glad to hear that improved tires resolved most of the issue. Great tires, not merely good tires, should always be a priority. Please post details of your mods and what difference they make.