Have a question...

Just installed H&R adjustable coilovers on my MCS. After lowering, I noticed that the rear camber and toe are out a whack. How and what do I need to fix this problem. Please advise. Thanks for any input.

 

Go to a professional alignment shop that is used to preping cars for racing. Have the car corner-weighted and aligned - if you are not prepared to do this than you've wasted big $$'s to make the car look better but will only achieve a modest improvement in handling. Good luck and have fun!

 

nocivic,
Who did you buy your coilovers from? If it was a minituner like Webbmotorsports or Helix13 then you can ask your vendor for coilover setting appropriate for the use of the car- street vs autocross vs track.

Anytime you change shocks, springs or coilovers there is the chance that the camber will be out of the range of stock settings or not even from left to right, not to mention toe will be off. Toe is always adjustable but not camber or caster.

In the front you may adjust camber or camber and caster using an adjustable camber plate. Which plate you select will determine if you can adjust camber only (RDR plates) or Camber and caster (P+D plates).

In the rear you may adjust camber using adjustable lower control arms. Without the control arms and the front camber plates you cannot adjust camber front or rear, only toe.

If you go to an alignment shop you can ask for any settings you want for toe and for camber (if you have the camber plates and adjustable lower control arms) but if you lack these then when you align you are stuck with whatever you've got after adding the coilovers. Everytime you adjust the coilovers you may affect camber and toe so before you think you'll have different settings for street vs track you'd need a way to measure and adjust toe.

You can post in the autocross forum about what coilover settings people would suggest for you but first decide what you are going to use the MINI for and let us know.

 

I'm going to lower my car with M7 springs. I'm sure that I will bring the car to get alliment after replacing the springs, but do I need a control arms installed to get them to adjust the rear camber? The uestion is if I don't have control arms do they be able to adjust them?

 

you will need to replace ther rear lower control arms if you want any adjustment to the camber.

 

Can I just lower the car with the springs and leave the car as that without aligement?

 

the lower you go the more severe the negative camber at the rear wheels. This could seriously effect the handling of the car. and make it look more like a corvair in the back.. :smile: :smile:

 

MPR, I installed the m7 springs on my MINI S without getting control arms. Put more than 3500 miles and uneven tire wear has not been a problem. I do rotate every 1200 though. Handling is great. hope this helps

 

I installed H-Sport springs, rear sway bar and the adjustable lower control arms several weeks ago. The resulting change in rear camber (-2.47) after the car was back on the ground was obvious. Not so obvious was the left rear toe angle that was way out of spec. Before bringing the car in for re-alignment, I played with car on some local twisties. Under hard braking the rear was very loose and, if intentionally thrown off balance in the corner it was real handfull. Picture yourself on a wet road making some dramatic moves to avoid an accident. Spend the money, get the adjustable control arms and a proper alignment. Only then you will have a car that "handles".

Cheers,

 

I had H-sport springs installed with H-sport rear lower control arms set to stock length.
Before I had alignment done I had -2.4 degrees negative camber in the rear and stock -0.5 camber in the front. Not sure of the toe settings.

My MCS handled badly and was very very rough on bumpy highway roads- so bad that the entire interior of the car rattled. Noise was horrible except on the smoothest roads and the handling and braking was difficult to control (unsettled).

After alignment to factory specs it was fine.

Others have installed H-sport springs and done OK with no alignment so it does vary.

 

So you need to rotate every month then.

Thanks for a lot of different opinions. I just don't want to get so many things at the same time my team manager(Wife) is watching me really carefully on what I'm doing.

First I will do springs and see how the car runs...then if it need to be adjusted I will get the control arms.

 

with directional tires you have to keep them on the same side of the car; not a typical "rotation", so you are doing a F/R change. stock the front will be about 1 deg neg; lowered rear, other wise stock, will be 2.5 deg neg, so you will average out between what 1 deg front and 2.5 degree rear camber produces for wear patterns


Even if you swapped sides, the relationship of camber tire wear to LS/RS stays the same, only the rotation direction changes

 

By comparison when I installed H-sport springs in my 03 MCS the camber became- (before any re alignment)
Front negative 0.5 degrees ( normal range for stock -0.1 to -1.0)
Rear negative 2.4 degrees (normal range for stock -1.0 to -2.0)
Your toe in or out may/will be altered when you change springs and might be different on the right vs the left which will affect handling.

 

What is the factory setup that I need to let the alignment shop know? or do they know?

 

The alignment shop I go to has the factory specs for MC and MCS so you can ask them to set it to factory specs or ask them to give you more or less toe or camber if you have the right adjustable suspension parts installed.

For every MINI you can adjust toe front and rear. Adjusting to specs does give you a well handling stable street car. Adjusting for autocross and track might not be in stock setting ranges since you might want more responsiveness, quicker turn in, etc and are willing to have a little less stable car for street driving.

To adjust front camber you will need camber plates. To adjust rear camber you will need rear lower control arms. Otherwise in a stock MINI you cannot adjust front or rear camber if you just add a rear sway bar or lowering springs. This means if the camber is too much or too litte, or not the same on the right and left then you have no means of evening it out or setting it to the values you want.

 

minihune,

Thanks you, That's really help me clear all of my questions.