Anyone have them? Whatcha think?

http://www.mini-works.com/chassis.html#CAMBER

I'm considering them - for next year's season. Budget is shot for this year.

-J

 

I have them. Very high quality, very subtle look in the engine compartment. They allow me up to -2.25 degrees negative camber before the spring contacts the strut tower underneath. I have them marked for street driving and autocross, and changing the setting is quick and easy.

 

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm only 2 hours from Charlie (at RDR)

Is it a bugger to put them in? What do you run for a setting for street VS. Autox? Do you need to lift the car to change it? Will Batman and Robin escape from the Joker's sinister trap in time?

Thanks :smile:

-Jim

 

They replace the top cap of the strut/spring assembly. So yes, you will need to pull the strut, and go through the same steps as replacing springs. Its best done with floor jacks, one to raise the car and another to raise the spindle assembly when reinstalling the strut.

I run -2 degrees camber for the street, and minus as much as I can get for autocross (between -2.25 and -2.5 depending upon how far I push in on the tire and how much I can tolerate the sound of the spring rubbing on the inside of the strut tower).

And yes, of course they escape, didn't you watch every campy episode as a kid?

 

I have the RDR camber plates. Very well engineered and machined product. They test/race what they produce!
Great customer support also.
At the alignment shop, I had them put marks for track (green line) and street (red line) on the camber plates and on the tie rods. Thus I have -2.1 degrees and "0" toe for track and -1 degree and "0" toe for street.

I"m also using H&R springs, Volks ce28 on Kumo's 215/40/17, Koni shocks. Pretty happy with this setup.

 

kmickey,

I agree with this setup. Planning for the RDR plates soon but gotta decide what to do with my front tower strut brace which probably not work with the plates. Pretty good price for the RDR plates. Are there any front tower strut braces that will still work with the RDR plates?

I'm planning -2.0 degrees front camber and 0 degrees front toe for autocross or track and -1.0 degree front camber 0 front toe for the street. Stock front camber setting specs from -0.1 to -0.9 degrees while rear camber is from -1.0 to -2.0 degrees.

What are your rear camber settings? I'm planning -1.0 camber for the rears, maybe as much as -1.5 but I want to keep it more conservative.

I have H-sport springs and rear lower adjustable control arms, madness rear sway bar on stiffest setting, front tower brace, R81 holie 15x5.5" rims with Kumho victoracer 205/50-15 tires

 

-1.5 seems to be a sweeter spot for the rear, with 0 toe and a sway bar set to stiff. A very slight toe out will also improve rotation. Definitely as much as you can in front, just keep them even on both sides.

 

how are you deciding what is the right amount of camber, front and rear?

 

Since I have nothing to go by except my stock settings I have to go on suggestions by BGarfield and others.

With Camber plates in the front you can choose to run more negative in the range of -1.5 to -2.5+ depending on which brand. I was going to try -2.0 although it seems others run -2.25 to -2.5 degrees.

In the rear although some suggest more negative camber about 0.5 degrees less negative than in the front, I was going to go with a little less negative more like -1.0 to -1.5 degrees.

That's how I came up with trying -2 in the front and -1.5 in the back.
I don't want to wear out my street tires too much. I don't want extra suspension parts rubbing.

This is my daily driver and commuting car but I'd like to tune the suspension a bit more for autocross and track.

What is your suggested method for determining front and rear camber?

 

I have RDR's. They are elegant and simple, by far the best quality. You can talk directly with Charlie at his shop about the install. He does a pair in under two hours. Be sure to have the toe set when you change camber.

 

there is really only one tried and true, classic method, other than reporting back on how you think it handled:

heat up the tires by a lot of cornering, both ways, then stop and measure tire temp across the width. if the outside is hotter than the inside, you need more negative camber. if you flatten the car by your choice of roll bar stiffness and spring/shock rates, the camber requirement might change. A similar test is used for accurate inflation: if the center is hotter than the edges, you have too much air pressure.

the underlying presumption is that even tire temp means an even and therefore optimum contact patch.

I haven't had the opportunity to do this testing; anyone else?

 

John:

Garfield and I measured our tire temps after almost every run last year. We decided that with the Falken Azenis (very stiff carcass) we got fairly even temps when running between -2 and -2.2 camber in the front. We also found that the car worked better for us with at least one degree less in the back than in the front. We settled on -2 in the front and -1 in the back.

David

 

Also keep in mind that if the rear has even temp across the tread it means the rear will also have more grip. This will most likely surface as slight understeer.

Paul

 

David,

What air pressure did you use with the RDR and Azenis?

 

Not sure about tower brace. I'm not running with one.

My rear camber is -1.5 to -1.7 degrees and 0 toe due to the H&R lowering spirngs, I don't have lower adjustable control arms yet. The existing rear camber/toe seems to work just fine at the track but I'm sure there could be improvements with adjustable control arms.

 

From the RDR site, "They mount below the fender allowing for after-market strut braces."

 

This thread has a wealth of information about Azenis and pressures

https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21493

But basically 35F/36R up to 40F/40R if it's real hot, and 24F/25R in the pouring cool rain

 

Thanks David,

Great info that I'd missed somehow.

 

Thanks to all who posted on this thread.

I got my RDR plates installed on my MCS on friday then off to SCCA solo II on sunday and track on monday.

I put back in my BMP Tower Strut brace and it fit fine along with the camber plates. Seems that the camber plates allow for about -1.1 degrees as closest to stock for me (one side goes to -1.1 and the other -0.8 only) and more than -2.5 degrees negative if I want.

I set the front camber to -2.2 degrees with toe out 1/16" while in the rear I have -1.2 degrees camber and toe in 1/16". I had the alignment checked once the -2.2 degrees and toe out was set then found when camber was changed to -1.1 degrees in the front the toe changed dramatically about 1/2". That's too much to drive on without having to adjust for toe to get it back in to zero to 1/16 out so for now I am going to just drive on -2.2 neg camber in the front and not adjust for the street.

So far I have driven for a few days on the street and it seems OK with a little more rough ride on uneven roads but handles well on turns. On smooth roads it feels much like a stock ride with runflats.

At autocross with Kumho victoracer 205/50-15 tires on stock holey rims I ran 46 psi in front and 38 psi in the rears and that worked pretty good. At the track I ran 43 psi in front and 35 psi in the rears with good results.

Rear Madness swaybar on stiffest setting. Not much understeer at all.

 

I leave mine set on the -2.2 negative camber all the time as well. I currently have my ALTA bar at full soft.

I'm amazed at the differences in tire pressures that I see with this car. Locally, I think we've gone to running pretty even pressures or even a little higher in the back to help the car rotate. I understand the desire to pump up the front - in fact that's what I expected to have to do when I got this FWD car. But I've been seeing good results with about a pound more in the back (autocross). On the track I go lower and let them heat up to about 41 lbs all around, this seems pretty good and I'm getting even temps across the tread surface.

 

I keep talking to the good guys and the tire guys at SCCA nationals....pretty much all say the same...hot pressure needs to be max 44....and go from there. cold pressure means squat to these guys......