I just installed Koni yellows, IE Engineering fixed camber plates and h-sport rear control arms. I brought the car to the shop to get an alignment to make sure the car was ok to drive and not ruin anything. The car will be mostly used for track days and high speed autox this summer not too much street driving so I'm not too worried about the tire wear ik everyone will say is going to happen. I had the fronts put as negative as possible and it came out to -2.0 on the front driver’s side and -1.75 on the front passenger side. I was thinking about just having them both at -1.75 to be balance but not sure if I should leave it because the front driver’s side tire takes the most abuse of them all. I would like some options. As for the rear I had them set the camber at -2.6 is this too much? I know it’s not “too much” it’s all up to the individual but I'm just wondering if I should have the backs a little more tame because I can’t get much more out of the front to balance it out. My theory was more in the back would help the back end from sliding out so much. I also cut the bottom 1/3rd of the bump stops off all around when installing the Koni’s. Sorry for the huge write up. Looking for opinions from people that track their cars a lot please

 

Those camber settings are pretty good for the track front and back. I would leave the driver side at -2.0. A difference of 2.0 to 1.7 is not going to be noticeable really.

Toe is just as important (if not more important) than camber for handling on the track. Front toe you want neutral toe for a conservative track set up, or toe out +1-2mm for an aggressive track setup. A little rear toe in 2mm or so will help the rear end hook up effectively.

Going for more aggressive toe will make the turn in much better, but can make the car wandery and twitchy and a little unstable. Also, more toe will decrease straight line speed and braking to some degree, and also cause more street tire wear.

Robbo

 

Since i'm a nut for the details having such a large difference between the front wheels would be a problem for me. I like -2.5 degrees up front for track, but you're stuck with those IE plates now. I hate to be the "would of, should of, could of" guy, but Vorshlags give you more room to adjust.

Why are you running so much rear camber? If you want the rear to skip around more it's typically a good idea to have less negative camber than the front.

Please tell me you also installed a H-sport competition rear sway bar! That is the key to waking up the rear end of the MINI!

 

I know i should have gone with the Vorshlags but i got a steal on the fixed plates so i couldn’t pass them up. I had the Alta rear sway bar already installed and have noticed a huge difference when I put it on. I set the camber that way in the rear because I figured it would help it grip better since in the class I'm running I need to have 200 tread wear or higher tires so I'm running a BFG g-force sport comp 2’s I got for around $200 for all 4 new installed on the car so I couldn’t pass that up either lol. The fronts just kind of bother me because I know the numbers but it just pulls a little to the right when I was driving home from the shop but nothing crazy. I had the toe set neutral all around, I figured I need as much control as possible on the straights because the car doesn’t have too much power. And I do mostly straight line breaking I try to get it all done before the turn it seems to work better for me at lease when the car was stock last year the couple times I was on the track.

 

That's too much rear camber IMO....I'd prefer under -2.0. Maybe -1.5 with those tires.

Not much you can do to balance out the camber up front. There are the pins in the strut towers but I'm not sure if that will make it even.

0 toe is good.

- Andrew

 

That's way too much rear camber, especially for autox. I'd get adjustable plates up front. I run -2.5 up front, -1.5 in rear, no toe up front, 1/16 in in rear. Track setup, I don't autox.

Rule of thumb for a MINI is if to run 1 degree less camber in the rear than in the front. So if you are running -2.0 up front, I'd run closer to -1.0 in rear, and definitely no more than -1.5 in the rear. With the setup you have, you will be rock solid in a straight line, but turning is going to be a challenge.

The other thing that comes into play here is your sway bar, has that been changed?

 

Yes, i do have the Alta RSB that is adjustable i was thinking about tuning it down do like -2 in the rear, I’m going to play with the pins up front and try to get them closer together tonight and take it in for an alignment again this weekend.

 

-2.0 is still too much in the rear. You want the rear to rotate, and it's not going to want to with that much rear camber. The MINI by it's very nature is prone to understeer. I'd drop it to at least -1.5, and if it were me, I'd go to closer to -1.0.

Cars are set up from the dealer with more rear camber in the rear than in the front--it keeps the car stable at highway speeds, at the price of understeer. It's a safety issue for the general public; the cars are set up to be as safe as they can be but at the sacrifice of performance. It's exactly the opposite of what you want in these cars on the track or autox.

It's difficult to get the back end to step out on these cars, in comparison to RWD or engine in the rear or both. It's difficult to get a MINI even to neutral. By dropping the rear camber lower than the front, you're going in the right direction. If you want to be conservative, go to -1.5 on the rears, try that, then maybe dial it back to -1.0 (or go to -2.5 on the front).

 

Thanks for that info, i do want a little more in the rear just because the back end got real squirrely last year a few times and i have spun off before not fun; ill probobly do -1.75then itll be balanced all around. idk if its just me but it feels like im going faster once i hit the grass and all control is gone lol

 

If your back end got squirrely, I seriously doubt it was from your alignment--may be time to thouroughly check all your bushings. I had a similar issue under hard braking, my bushings were shot--went to polyflex bushing and the car is rock solid stable again (although at the expense of some comfort driving around town).

Depending on your rear sway bar, you may want to put it on the softest setting to begin with (maybe it already is), at least on the track, until you're comfortable with how the rear is acting, then stiffen it up more once everything feels comfortable.

 

That's what i was thinking too i actually have the power flex bushings in the box but the shop that did the alignment said it wouldn’t be worth it yet (at least he was honest), he was going to charge over $400 just to do the front rear control arm bushings... but the car only has 30k on it so they "should" still be good. I think it may have to do with lack of practice too because its just a few turns at certain tracks that i keep going off at the same place, but practice is expensive lol.

 

If you are doing real high speed track work then -2 rear camber is not too much, it is just about right.

The whole concept of "getting the back to rotate" is more about slow speed autocross, where you need to get around a tight course and cones. This is done by reducing rear end grip.

To be fast on the track you want plenty of rear end grip. IMHO you do not want "the rear to rotate" whilst you are going around a 100mph sweeper!! If you do want the rear to step out and help you around a tighter corner on the track, then that is easy to do by lifting off the brakes.

I hold plenty of track class records in the mini, and have spent a lot of time suspension tuning. Running camber around -2 on the rear will get you good even tire temps across the face of the tire, which is really what you want, getting all the tire gripping and working evenly.

If you are more doing short or slow speed autocross, then yes less camber may be advisable.

Out of interest the new GP runs -2.2 camber rear out of the factory.

 

You are the only one I know that runs that much rear negative camber on the track. The reason why the GP is so high is for street safety, not for track work. It's a legal thing...

The car is plenty stable with -1.5 in a straight line, it's not neutral--it still UNDERSTEERSin the turns at -1.5, but it's close. Having used a pyrometer (and looking at tire wear), I wouldn't go any more than -1.5 on the rears. But that's me.

The more negative camber, the less efficient your brakes are as well--it's a compromise there too, although the rears don't do much to begin with.

 

The correct answer for rear camber is "it depends."

-2.0 with one tire and suspension set-up may not be good with a different tire and suspension. And of course there's driver preference.

I'm not a "get it to rotate at all costs" kind of a guy, and having confidence in the car can be a huge boost. I run -1.4 or -1.5 in the rear but I'm running pretty crappy tires so it doesn't need much. With stickier tires I'd run more. Or I'd just run firmer springs, or some combination of the two.

- drew

 

Using the carousel at Road America as a reference, I've tried many different setups, and data logging, this is the fastest way through it, at least on my car. Turn 1 is a high speed corner too, and it's the same deal. Everyone is different, but dialing up the rear camber too much, at least in my car, slows me down.

 

It looks like either way -2.6 is a little high for the set up, I already have the swift springs on their as well so they are more firm, i think ill adjust it to -2.0 and see how it handles ill be on the track on the 19th, now i just got to see if i can figure out the fronts maybe play with the 3 bolts up top. I would like them a little more balanced just for peace of mind lol but if its going to be un-even im glad that the front drivers side is more because that one takes the most abuse of them all