what does 0 toe do, compares to stock alignments? front / rear?

one person said, it makes you go and brake faster, but less turning abilities.

 

I'm thinking that reducing front toe-in to zero would actually benefit cornering; especially at turn-in. The down side to zero toe, or a little toe-out, would be that the car tends to wander a bit more on straights, thus requiring more frequent steering corrections to keep the car going straight. This may be the primary purpose for a little toe-in at both ends; to calm down extraneous movement at each end.

Too much toe in either direction would probably impede acceleration and slowing to some extent (in addition to causing excessive tire wear at the edges), as does a lot of negative camber.

 

Zero toe will make the car skittish. For street use, it's generally turned in a bit at the front. For track cars, they're often turned out a bit.

 

advice me on what settings i should use for performance street use.


second what is a good rule for lowering amounts? as i just installed some coil overs.

bringing car for alignment on Wednesday .

 

I wouldn't say it makes the car "skittish" but in theory yes it is more skittish than if it was toed in. Lots of toe out can become an issue. In reality 0 toe is not even close to a problem and has many more advantages than disadvantages IMO. I run 0 toe and the car is easy to drive. I highly recommend it.

What kind of tires do you run? Do you have camber plates and rear control arms?

- Andrew

 

For the '05/'06 MC (justa) the spec ranges (where the settings would be in the "green") at my last alignment were given as follows. Don't know if the MCS is the same. Camber and toe are not independent; as you change one, the other changes also, so you might need to compromise. Camber plates would allow a wider adjustment range than OE specs.

Front: Toe: .11 to .19 degrees. (For better turn-in, minimize toe.)
Camber: -.1 to -.9 degrees. (For better cornering, maximize negative camber.)
Caster: Not independently adjustable.

Rear: Toe: .13 to .27 degrees.
Camber: -1.4 to -2.1 degrees. Some try to get this down to minimum.

I don't know what the optimum (for performance) lowering would be on your coil-overs, but at least you'll have more functional range with coil-overs than with just lowering springs.

 

I'm very happy with -1.7 front and -1.3 rear camber with 0 toe all around. I might have a tiny tiny bit of rear toe in.

I strongly dislike the stock specs for handling, and I get more even tire wear now than I did before too. Way too much rear camber and way too little up front. Handling and tire wear are both improved for my "fun street" use car.

As for the amount to lower your car that will depend on a couple factors, but around an inch is a good place to start. Really low is generally not better for handling FYI.

- Andrew

 

yes i have camber plates, no i dont have rear control arms. got a 2002 mcs.

the rear i am worried about the lack of adjustments. not in my budget atm.

front 0 toe, -1.3-1.5 camber.

rear -0.1 with lowest camber i can get out of the factory.

sound good?

hieght was more a question of taste. atm i set to about 1/2 inch between tire and fender.

body to gruond front is 5 3/4 ", rear is 6.3/4".

 

tires are : http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....WSXL&tab=Sizes

215r45 17

 

That's fine. I still recommend 0 toe...most places will end up giving you a little bit of toe in anyway unless you tell them you really really want 0 toe.

I'd recommend rear control arms, you're gonna end up with a lot of camber back there with a drop.

- Andrew

 

I just reset the alignment of my R56 after I added a NM 22MM RSW and took all my free front camber. I am not lowering or anything else since I want to stay in D stock. I had the front set to 0 toe and the rear to just a breath, .02, of toe. Also had the rear camber reduced to -1.5. I could not believe how far off my previous alignment was. I had -1.3 left rear and -2.0 right rear camber as well as .41 left rear toe and .21 right rear toe. Hope to try it out on course this weekend to see how it drives - calling for rain but I hope to get some dry runs first. Drives great on the road with no skiddish stearing noticed so far.

 

I am surprised by your rear camber of -0.1 degrees, that does not sound right especially if lower than stock. I would expect the rear camber to be at least -1.5 and probably much more negative if lowered with no adjustable rear lower control arms.

If you lower the car, you will need adjustable rear lower control arms to reduce the rear negative camber to a reasonable amount to reduce rear tire wear.

I like 0 to slightly toe-out in the front. I run -2.0 camber in front.
I like 0 toe in the rear. I run -1.5 camber in the rear.

With negative camber it is best to keep toe near zero to reduce wear on the inside edge of the tire.

 

The front toe mostly effects straight line - some toe in will keep it dead straight on the freeway, a little out and you'll notice you'll have to "correct" more often.

Form a performance standpoint, a little toe-out will help speed initial turn-in. I don't know the Mini geometry, but the little Ackermann boost might help steady state a little too.

A reduction in rear toe is one of the best things I've done with my Mini. Think of it as passive rear steering: with toe in, the outside rear is resisting rotation. With toe out, the outside rear is adding. I'd avoid rear toe out, I tried that. The wandering rear end was a bit unsettling on the freeway. Mine is at zero now, and it's lively without feeling nervous.

Echoing everyone else above, a good performance baseline is zero toe front, very slight toe in rear. If you want to get more conservative, more toe in all around. More agressive, go with a touch of toe out on the front.

With the lowering, change in spring rates, change in camber, and change in damping, you may have to adjust everything quite a bit pending testing. Have patience, take a lot of notes, and only adjust one thing at a time. You're starting from scratch. Good luck.

Also a side note: Excessive toe in or out will chew through tires much, much faster than camber.

 

Burgler: I'm putting you up for a battlefield promotion to 2nd gear.

 

Here's what Gollum has at the moment - note the mods in my sig...

--------- LF ----- RF -----
Camber: -2.5 ___-2.5
Toe: ___ .16 deg .15 deg

--------- LR ----- RR -----
Camber: -2.0 ___-2.0
Toe: ___ .22 deg .20 deg
Thrust: ____ (0.01)

That's the best alignment the car has ever had.

Kind regards,

Charlie