flyboy2160, the last link is good, as it has seals you can add to any rod end down to 1/4". The first two links are fine for use as possible control arms, but a 5/8" rod end is just a wee bit too big for swaybar use...

 

Nice work 2cool. For future info, Perrin and Alta are the same. Perrin is the parent company for Alta.

Are those left and right hand threaded units?

Randy

 

rye: don't you have nasty salted roads in your neck? I realize 2cool is from a warmer clime. I have to hose my undercarriage to clewan off the funk and it gets into coilover threads, camber plates, swaybar links, control arms and steering ball joints, whatever. the more protection the better.

 

It looks like you can also get right/left thread connecting rods at McMaster Carr, but they're hexagonal, so they don't look as cool as tubular.:smile:

STeve

 

--->John; I certainly do have horribly salted roads! I was just under my wheel arches the other day making a swaybar adjustment, and I kid you not, the drop links were almost spotless - after a dreadfully dirty winter! I know where you're coming from with the "more protection is better", however it seems in this case it would just be money not-well-spent. For the DIY'er that wants to trim the fat off their MINI-tuning budget, 2Cool's proposed units are spot-on.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

any recomendations on how to cut that rod with out messing up the threading?

 

2cool,

Very well done! When it comes time to lower this is the route I'm going.

The rods are r/h threads on both ends, correct? So you're setting length before you put them on? I was expecting them to be l/h on one end and r/h on the other, so that they act like a turnbuckle.

One other Q--anyone care to comment on the various materials--like what's best? Oil-impregnated bronze, PTFE--what's it all mean in real-life? I assume that the anodized alum. is not the way to go with the forces at work--correct me if I'm wrong (again.)

Thanks again, this makes lowering easier to justify!

--Jeff

 

>>any recomendations on how to cut that rod with out messing up the threading?

If you have a lathe handy, that would be perfect, but otherwise, you should be able to get it reasonably straight on a bandsaw, then take them to a sanding wheel, and if you make sure you keep the rod perpendicular to the wheel, you can get it nice and flat. Afterwards, just make sure you chase the threads with a tap. I'm thinking too, based on the threaded length of the female rods on McMaster Carr, you will need to tap further through the rod in order to get the ends all the way in.

2Cool, are the female rods drilled all the way through, or only as deep as the threads?

For those interested, I've also found some aluminum rod ends, anodized red, with PTFE/Kevlar races at QA1 Precision.

Steve

 

2Cool, have you spec'd out a similar setup for the front links? I would like to do a one stop shop if you have all the parts list together.

Thanks much for your help.
Sid

 

Some road and track test results: the bronze oil impregnated bushings provide solid swaybar feel and handling, but they move a bit too freely and transmit some noise into the cabin as they shift under light straight ahead road running. Under load they are great, but idling along they make noise.

So, I am going to try something different, or most likely go with the 3/8" seals that flyboy2160 linked to at http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...es/sealsit.php . All that is required is something to damp the rod end swivelling at light load.

Some additional info you DIY types... I got in a set of the RDR rear control arms. Some dimensional information on them: main rod is 17.5" long. The rod ends have spacers to make their width total 1.5" where they go into the frame/spindle mounts. The rod end hole centerlines are 21" apart without adjustment, which is the stock control arm length. The holes are 1/2" in diameter (12.5mm, for a 12mm bolt). The two spacers on the rod ends are 3/8" (1cm) thick.

So somebody get out there and build some control arms!

 

Thanks 2cool. Nicely documented upgrade in your posts.

We know about the pros of doing this mod.

Cons-
The price. Not that bad.
Cost of labor if you don't do it yourself.
Not much noticable difference for street use or straightline speed.
Can't really see the mod so it's appearance may not always be appreciated unless you powercoat it a bright color.
Depending on thickness of endlink-might rub on other suspension parts.

Note-I do know an MCS owner with lowered springs and rear swaybar where endlinks did not fit because they were too thick and rubbed against the swaybar- this made noise when cornering and affected suspension. He had to go back to stock endlink parts.

 

>>Thanks 2cool. Nicely documented upgrade in your posts.
>>
>>We know about the pros of doing this mod.
>>
>>Cons-
>>The price. Not that bad.
>>Cost of labor if you don't do it yourself.
>>Not much noticable difference for street use or straightline speed.
>>Can't really see the mod so it's appearance may not always be appreciated unless you powercoat it a bright color.
>>Depending on thickness of endlink-might rub on other suspension parts.
>>
>>Note-I do know an MCS owner with lowered springs and rear swaybar where endlinks did not fit because they were too thick and rubbed against the swaybar- this made noise when cornering and affected suspension. He had to go back to stock endlink parts.
minihune, which sway bar and springs were they??

 

The MCS owner that I know had trouble with the thicker blue Alta endlinks, the older version 2 hole madness rear swaybar on firmest setting and HR springs. When he drove at less than 35 mph it would rattle in the rear.
So he changed his rear swaybar setting to softer and it is OK with all his upgrades. No rubbing now.

I have H-sport springs and Madness rear swaybar two hole set to firmest and stock endlinks and it looks like I have extra space.

_________________
Send a PM to minihune Mele Kalikimaka & Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!

 

>>Some additional info you DIY types... I got in a set of the RDR rear control arms. Some dimensional information on them: main rod is 17.5" long. The rod ends have spacers to make their width total 1.5" where they go into the frame/spindle mounts. The rod end hole centerlines are 21" apart without adjustment, which is the stock control arm length. The holes are 1/2" in diameter (12.5mm, for a 12mm bolt). The two spacers on the rod ends are 3/8" (1cm) thick.
>>
>>So somebody get out there and build some control arms!

So 2Cool, were you thinking about doing a set of control arms in the same way as the end links? I'm not certain I would trust the same McMaster Carr connecting rods in a larger size without some testing, and you'd have to use the Male/Female ended version, but it's certainly do-able. I suppose the most difficult part is doing up a set of spacers...which you have so kindly provided the measurements for. :smile:

Steve

 

Actually I think the 21" greasable rod end/tube system that was linked earlier would work, with proper spacers to fit into the mounts. And at $36.40 each, they are a decent bargain. Now we need pricing on spacers, sized for the 1.5" width and 1/2" bolt hole...

http://www.out-pace.com/steelgreaseable.html

I am also ordering the rod end seals in 3/8" size, enough for all 4 swaybar endlinks. We'll see if they quiet down the noise I hear now. If so then I will consider it a success. Otherwise I am looking for some teflon lined rod ends.

 

Remember that this car is metric, not american, 1/2 inch is not the correct size for the control arm bolts. It's 12mm. Here is a list from the Mc Master catalog for the DIY Control Arm. This is every thing less the bar for the control arm. The tubing worked as an adapter from the 16mm Ball joints that I used from the 12mm bolt.

4 EA 59935K87 - Metric Ball Joint Rod
End M16 X 2 Right Hand Male
Shank, 8405 Pound Load Cap

1 EA 50365K351 - Metric 316 Stainless
Steel Seamless Tubing 16 mm OD,
12 mm ID, 2.0 mm Wall, 1/2 Meter
Length

4 EA 59935K471 - Metric Ball Joint
Rod End M16 X 2 Left Hand Male
Shank, 8405 Pound Load Cap

4 PK 93510A140 - Metric 18-8 SS Left-
Hand Threaded Hex Nut M16 Screw,
2mm Pitch, 24mm Width, 13mm
Height

1 PK 91828A430 - Metric 18-8
Stainless Steel Hex Nut M16
Screw Size, 2mm Pitch, 24mm
Width, 13mm Height

I have this, as it worked, but there was ball joint noise after a couple hundred miles. You really need to protect those joints.

 

Ah, but the standard 3/8" is but a tiny amount smaller than 10mm that it is not really relevant. Also, the stock rod ends have a 12.5mm hole... the conversion is 25.4mm ~ 1 inch, so 12.5mm is very very close to 1/2". Reason I used that standard measurement is because the parts are often 1/2 the price of metric, and more readily available in the US.

 

>>Remember that this car is metric, not american, 1/2 inch is not the correct size for the control arm bolts. It's 12mm. Here is a list from the Mc Master catalog for the DIY Control Arm. This is every thing less the bar for the control arm. The tubing worked as an adapter from the 16mm Ball joints that I used from the 12mm bolt.

Dan, was the 16mm tubing only necessary for acting as a bushing to the rod end, and then the 16mm rod end was thick enough that you didn't need to close up the gaps between the rod end bearing, and the stock mounts on the car? Also, what did you end up using for the rod portion?

I'm assuming the ride quality drops a bit when you implement this conversion...what about finding appropriate poly bushings to fill the gap (rather than your 16mm tube), and give a little bit more reasonable street comfort, while retaining the adjustability and taking out some of the slop in the stock bushings.

I'm just brainstorming here, it's not a mod I'm likely to do soon, but just to have the information in my head.

Steve

 

The 16MM tube was to allow me to ues a heavier duty hiem joint. You will allso need some sort of 16mm inner diamater tube to keep the hiems in place. I did welding on it to hold it in place, which is not the way to do it They worked out real well otherwise. For the rod's I used T6061 Hardened ALuminum 7/8 Hex Bar (www.asapsource.com). I had the centers bored for the hole, and I threaded them my self.

 

Some additional info:

The front swaybar endlink is 30cm (11-7/8&quot long, from hole center to hole center. It uses the exact same bolt size/thread pitch (10mm) as the rear.

 

2Cool, do you have part numbers for these?

Much appreciation.
Sid


>>Some additional info:
>>
>>The front swaybar endlink is 30cm (11-7/8&quot long, from hole center to hole center. It uses the exact same bolt size/thread pitch (10mm) as the rear.

 

this seemed like a good idea except for the teflon lining (more below). i wanted metal/metal with a grease fitting, so i did some checking on the mcmaster carr rod ends mentioned above.

they are made by FK bearing. according to them, THIS SWAGED-IN STUD DESIGN SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR AUTOMOTIVE SWAY BAR END LINKS. they tested them for the same purpose and found that the swaging worked loose after a while and wouldn't hold the stud. they recommended using a regular rod end with a through bolt for auto sway bar end links.

i don't care how many people use teflon lined spherical joints: the teflon will cold flow under load and the joint will loosen. in addition, the teflon will get impregnated with grit and act as real nice lapping pad, further loosening the joint. i learned this whole sad story while working at big aircraft manufacturuer xxxxxxx. the dry film lubed spherical bearings were developed specifically to overcome these 2 problems with teflon lined spherical bearings that carry load in a dirty environment. we were specifically prohibited from using teflon lined ball joints.

if anybody offers a glass fiber reinforced teflon (Tefzel) race, that will reduce, but not eliminate, the cold flow, but i don't know of anybody who does.

i'm getting the FK rod ends with the grease nipple. using the through bolt will allow using the seals linked above.

 

2Cool, do you have part numbers for these?

Much appreciation.
Sid

 

2Cool....where are you? Need some mo info please...

 

The end links are exactly the same as the rear, only the shaft length is slightly longer. So if you make them with the threaded rod method, you just need to cut the rod a bit longer.