What andrew is saying is that you are bottoming out, it's just that it doesn't really feel like it because the bumpstops are actually active most of the time. The fact that you're riding on them almost always during aggressive driving, and that they're actually designed to be ridden on (so that the spring rate is ramped up very quickly) probably means that it doesn't feel like you're bottoming out.

 

It's definitely tough to get a feel for the standard shocks because of the lack of travel and the runflats. For my R53 I also had 25 lb wheels to deal with too.

- andrew

 

I just pulled the front HDs out of the box. Fully extended to fully collapsed measures a whopping 2 3/8". I'll be interested to see how much bump travel there actually is at ride height.

950 lb vintage Formula Fords usually have 4"-5" travel in the front, 5"-7" in the rear with 200-500 lb springs. The motion ratio is typically about .5. Since the Mini has a strut, I guess that the MR is close to 1.

And the internal stops don't feel seem progressive at all, at least to the sledge hammer test.

I'll put the front springs on the tester when we install the Bilsteins so you folks will know what the rate is on front Justa springs. (I'll measure the free length, too.)

DOC

 

^ Good job. Interested in seeing the rates on the springs.

Getting a true bump travel number would be great as well!

- Andrew

 

Installed Blstein HDs today. Bottom line, car does not bottom out in the ridiculous places it did before, so mission accomplished. Things did not go exactly as planned, though, so I don't have all the info I hoped to.

OEM front struts have 5 1/2" stroke and feel like they have less bump damping than the just out of the box Bilsteins. However, I have 35+ years of experience with Bilsteins and they often soften with miles. (So, the bottoming may not be gone, permanently.)

The front springs appear to be single rate (i.e. NOT rising rate) and are 125 lbs/in.

Bilstein piston is a whopping 1 5/8" in diameter.

Car appeared to gain about 1/2" of ride height in the front after installation.

Previously, I had .8 degrees of negative camber in front (pins removed). After Bilstein install, could not get more than .5 degrees negative. This may have a little to do with the higher ride height, but strut suspension usually does not have that much camber change. Not really sure what to make of it (same, really expensive alignment rig, same operator).

Sorry I was not able to take measurements of pre and post ride height, spring free length, fitted spring length at ride height and available stroke at ride height.

Perhaps others installing these struts can do this, though I guess most will be going on turbo cars with shorter springs.

I'm inclined to think now that a Cooper S with these shocks and Justa springs would make a really nice street-only car.

DOC

 

Those springs are pretty soft. Thank you for measuring them.

Since you have total stroke, if you measure the distance from center of wheel hub to fender while the car is on the ground, then jack up the car and measure the same distance, you'll have droop travel. The total stroke - droop = bump (pretty close). That doesn't include the bumpstop though.

- Andrew

 

Following andyroo's suggestion, the fronts appear to have 3" of droop (at the wheel) from ride height. Remember, before you get too excited, the motion ratio is a little below one.

In hindsight, I wish I had put the strut in the spring checker before installation. That way, I could have put up to a 1000 lb. load on the shaft to check both the actual full range and the range of travel when one is "in" to the internal bumpstop. You can now assume that the 2 3/8" range I got by collapsing the bare strut on the bench was the "free play" between full extension and when the strut is collapsed to the point of engaging the internal bumpstop.

Additional driving up to 85 MPH confirms that the ride is MUCH firmer than before and hastens the need to retire the runflats ASAP.

I need all season tires that are VERY good when hitting standing water at speed. (195-55-16)

I am leaning towrds V rated Yokohama ENVigors (not available in H in that size).

Second is Bridgestone Potenza GO19s. Also, Falken ZE-912s (VERY good through standing water) and Continental ProContacts..........

Any votes or alternatives?

Thanks,

DOC

 

So there's 2.5 inches of bump then with the Bilsteins. Since you had a .5 inch height increase from the billys that means 2 inches of bump with the OEM struts.

That's not including the bumpstop. I'd imagine that's at least 2 inches long?

Thank you very much for taking the measurements.

I wonder if the firmer Cooper S springs are better matched to the Bilstein HDs, or at least use the travel more effectively? tvrgeek has that set-up and maybe can compare his results.

I ran the bridgestone g019's and they were okay....sidewall was a bit firm. I'm now running Hankook Ventus V4 ES H105. They are okay. I think I would go for the Yokos if I was choosing again today.

On my older 2005 MCS, i just noticed the other day that disabling stability control made the car MUCH better when i hit standing water. Might be different on a new car.

- Andrew

 

That 1/2 inch travel extra is quite significant.

Your experience with water is very similar on the R56. I always have to remember to remove the DSC in the wet especially on the track. Kind of counter intuitive.

 

Yeah i guess the DSC just freaks out when you hydroplane and it doesn't know what to do. I was pretty happy when i figured out that the car worked so much better when it was off....i was confused why it was so horrible with fresh tires.

- andrew

 

Andrew,

Did you have time to put on your underbody brace?

 

Since you are still using the stock springs I seriously doubt that there is any difference in the ride height. Assuming that Bilstein sent you the right shocks and they were designed for the MINI Cooper with the spring perches in the correct place. Afterall, the stock shocks would still allow the wheels to drop when the car was jacked up, therefore as long as the weight of the car hasn't changed the ride height will be the same. Any apparent change in height is either an optical illusion or just wishful thinking.

I noticed a significant change in the smoothness of the ride and control of the car when I switched to Koni Sport shocks on my '06 MCS with stock springs.

 

Assuming the spring perches are in exactly the same place is a BIG assumption. (I did not measure that.) Also, since it appears that at ride height the strut is already "in" to the internal bumpstops, there is effectively a secondary spring. Either of these things (or both) could account for the increase in ride height. Fender gap was measured before and after. I just measured again and it has not "settled", as of yet.

DOC

 

Since you are running on old springs I seriously doubt that there will be any settling.

 

Yes, today. Haven't driven much yet but I have a nice drive home tonight to play.

 

Gas pressure could have added slightly to the ride height?

Drew

 

Drew,

I don't think much, if any. The OEM struts have a fair amount of gas pressure (at least on the 'hand" dyno). The Bilsteins have a little bit more, but not enough to raise 1700 lbs very much. I think it is mostly due to the additional spring pressure from the internal bumpstops that appear to be "engaged" at ride height. The perches may also be mounted slightly higher on the strut, too.

For those who still question the ride height increase, note that I "lost" .3 degrees of negative camber with the strut tops all the way "in" (as they had been before) which is consistent with a front ride height increase.

Again, now the car no longer "crash bottoms" where it really shouldn't, but the ride is MUCH firmer. Will report again when I have replaced the runflats with tires that are held up with "air".

(Leaning stronger towards Yoko ENVigors. Anymore input?)

Thanks,

DOC

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post3142293

 

Thanks. Great read. I wholeheartedly agree. Very similar experience on the R56.

 

I just stumbled across this thread and read it in it's entirety. Good info! I was wondering if anyone had considered the FSD Koni's? We have been driving around in an 09 Cooper for a year and a half and have only bottomed it out once, and that was with both wheels at the same time. Big dip in the shadows of a mountain road while chasing a line of Mini's @ about 65mph. Made a sound, and felt, very different than all the other noises I had heard out of the Mini.

Stephen

 

This is very good stuff. My 09 Justa bottoms frequently in the storm dips we have around Florida. I have a set of FSDs sitting here waiting for me to get the courage to take it all apart. This thread is helping my courage.

BTW -- my 205/50/16 Yoko Envigors are the best investment I've made (the NM torque stiffener is number 2). Good tires and VERY good in the wet as I found out on the Blue Ridge last week.

 

I have been using General Altimax 205x50x16's and they take the Pacific Northwest rain fairly well. They are more quiet than the Goodyear RFT but not as quiet as my summer Bridgestone RE760's.

That "Storm Dip" was what the dip in the road that I hit resembled. All 20 Mini's hit it and most made the same comment.

Let us know how those FSD's work, inquiring minds need to know.

 

AFAIK the Billys have gas pressure equivalent to adding 50 lb/in to the spring. That's why you got a ride height increase. it happens all the time when people put Billys on the E36 M3. Man, did Bilstein blow it big time with the shock valving there. Probably 30% too much high speed compression damping, and not enough rebound. It's just wrong...

Anyway, I'm about to order Texas Speedwerks springs, and Billy HD's. I'll report back.

The stockers are a very low pressure shock, the Billys aren't.

 

It doesnt make sense... even if the valving is stiffer, which I can completely believe, by having the car SIT higher BECAUSE of the shocks/struts means that the car is actually resting on the shocks/struts instead of the springs. I see this being more of an issue than the car sitting higher if so.


Got my billy's in last night, will be putting them on tomorrow.

 

Richard,

At least on the "hand" dyno, there's not much difference in initial bump movement resistance between Bilstein HDs (front) and the OEM struts (2010 Justa) I just took out. When you factor in the much stiffer compression valving on the Bilsteins, it is hard to imagine there's significantly higher pressure in the Bilsteins. I compared them side by side in the middle of installation because I was interested.

However, I agree that in another application whre there is 50 lbs more "spring" from nitrogen pressure, this could certainly increase static ride height a little, everything else being equal.

DOC