Anyone have some input on what are good settings for camber, caster and toe for the road race track? I have a 09 Clubman S, it doesn't do too bad on the track

I'm going to put on camber plates, but stock otherwise. So, I was planning on trying for close to -2 deg up front. I'm not sure I will get that much. The alignment shop has me set at -2 in the rear right now.

Can we even adjust caster?

How about toe? On my Vette I go for about 1/8 total toe out up front and zero to 1/16 toe in on the rear. I would think the Mini would be similar.

Any opinions or experiences?

Thanks,
Matt

 

Cannot adjust caster with the factory parts.

I run -1.4 F and -1.8 rear for camber. Feels like it needs a little crisper turn in. I think it is better at -2 F and -1.8 R for camber.

Toe near 0 worked for me.

 

I am at -2.0 front, no toe, -1.5 rear, 1/16 toe in.

I'm going to try a little more negative camber up front, -2.3, and see what happens.

 

On street, I like starting at -1.5 all around and see how it works. Spring rates, tire pressure, roll bars, shocks, and your style all play into it. I am at -.9 front, -.4 rear right now. I am considering backing off on my rear bar adjustment as it feels a tad unsettled before the front gives out. Some if it is learning conventional tires again. I suspect I will have to spring for plates and rear radius rods eventually. I am at stock height.

On the race track, there is no correct answer. Every track is different. Every tire is different. Go see what people with similar cars on the track you intend to run on are doing. Do not copy race cars unless you build a race car.

Front caster can be adjusted with plates like the K-MAC or with the ALTA rear solid bushing. It is not adjustable stock.

Rear toe. Hmmm. Might think about that.

 

My general rule for both my minis is 2/3 less camber in the rear than the front. Tvrgeek is right. Start with 1.3ish all round, then gradually up the front neg camber. I'd say 2 deg for the road, up front, and 1.3 rear. If you can dial in some caster, it's usually a good idea. I have the Alta PSRS front lower control arm rear bushings, and now have around 4 deg caster IIRC.

Everyone likes different settings, see what you like best. Also depends on why tires you use of course.

 

I run more negative camber in the back than some others since I tend to oversteer a lot (based on my driving style). Based on the tire wear, I may be still a little light on rear camber. When I put my front camber plates back on, I will dial up the front camber to -2.

Yes, it is easy to say it is track dependent, which is correct. But I am not a pro driver so it is hard to ascertain much differences in small changes in suspension settings. It is the search for neutral handling, whatever that means.

 

MattB_Co

Since you are new to the forum, you may not have noticed that there is a secion in NAM just for track. It is called racing and competition. Just scroll down and look for that section heading.

Lots of info there. CCT1, OC, S-driver, VV, GKP, myself and lots of others who track their cars are lurking in that section often.

 

The Mini has good potential for progressive negative camber in the rear due to the large difference in track arm angles. Has anyone plotted this? Degrees camber per degree of roll. Other than being basically conservative to start with, that would be why I started with the minimal "free" adjustment I could get. Two pair of arms from TSW ain't cheap. (I am). With how easy it was to drop the subframe, I am no longer worried about how hard it is to change them out. Drop the frame and the inner bolts are right in front of you. Maybe it is less than I imagine.

Of course, up front the traditional strut has almost no camber progression. I bet two feels good, but last time I went that far it did show up in the tire wear. That only means I should have done some Friday-at-the-track to scrub the rest of the tire bald first.

 

Tvrgeek, I would say you'd get around 1.3 deg rear negcamber per degree of roll angle. Quite a lot, which is why most people tend to run more front than rear

 

Thanks. I am not surprised by the angles of the arms. I was looking for any free suspension modeling tools. No luck. Guess I need to pull out the old drafting board.

 

My pleasure. That was a guess mind you, I'm sure the real plot wouldn't be linear

 

Gives me something to do Sunday.

 

Hehe, I'd like know how they compare, front to rear, as I'm sure a lot of others will

 

Front is almost easy. Darn near zero. It is a strut! If I get a change I will try and draw it out. About 25 inches ball-joint to strut top. The big factor for front camber is actually caster. As you turn the wheel you get camber. That is why people add caster to a strut front end. If it was a "proper A-Arm, you could run less caster and get quicker steering response.

 

So, tvrgeek, do you have the drafting done?
Because if you do, I would interested to know if you can add caster by moving the top of the strut back (towards the rear of the car)? That's assuming that you have some way to do it. If that is all there is to it, then I might make a set of modified plates for my Ireland fixed camber plates.

 

I drew out the rear, Bottom line was the rear seems to change just about in step with body roll. A degree of roll gives a degree in camber if you are starting at stock ride height. It gets a bot more progressive after the first two inches as the top link goes past horizontal. Not going to draw the front. Too many other tasks. I am pretty happy with where I am sitting now. I was looking for any free-ware suspension cad packages but came up empty.

Yes, you could increase caster by moving the strut back. The K-Mac plate lets you do that. I don't think I would go there on a street car. On a track car I would cut off the top of the strut tower off and weld a plate on where I wanted it. Remember, if it was that easy and free, Mini would have done it.

 

I would be interested to see that.

Adding 2 degrees of caster to a Subaru is like driving a completely different car, always wondered why people are afraid of doing it to the Mini.

- Andrew

 

I downloaded one last year, can't remember what it was called, but it was good. I think Dr Obnxs recommended it to me. Let me see if I can track it down.

Running the extra caster from my ALTA PSRS made a lovely difference, as did running extra caster on my old R53 with my camber/caster plates.

 

Actually, the Ireland fix -1.25 camber plates are nothing more than a top strut bearing mount on a steel plate with an offset to give the -1.25 deg, which then mounts to the strut tower. I figure it wouldn't be too hard to make a mounting plate with the same inward offset and add to it about a 1/2" rearward offset. That should give a little over a deg more of caster. Simple enough.

 

As you have deduced, this ain't rocket science. Go for it!

 

+1 for this setup. I would say the -2.0 is good if you also drive your car on the street. If not max out the drivers side and then set the passenger side to match. It seems the restriction on our cars is the drivers side.

I would also recommend against any toe out. I had 1/8 total toe out and the car was scary at high speeds. MINIs turn in pretty well already, there is not need for toe out. I would stay at 0 toe in the front.

 

This is a good street/track combo performance alignment. No excessive street wear, and yet very good track performance.

 

Just got my alignment done....

Boy did I need an alignment... They gave me a print out of all my specs. As Slinger688 said, Caster could not be changed and remained ~4.0 degrees.

My rear tires have -2.25 degrees of camber where as my front only have about -.80 degrees. I asked for oem spec as much as possible, but from what you guys have been discussing, this seems like a lot negative camber (for the rear.) Wont this cause more understeer under hard turning?

Additionally, my rear right wheel's toe was misaligned and could not be adjusted (bmw specific tool required?) Its at +0.28 degrees of toe which was just out of the oem spec of 0.22 to 0.25. They assured me this wasn't that big of a deal but considering my other rear wheel has 0.22 degrees of toe, I am wondering if that is necessarily true.

Lastly, anyone know where I can get this magical bmw tool that is used to adjust Toe angles?

 

There is no such tool. You loosen the three bolts that secure the trailing arms, shift the arm a bit, and retighten the bolts

 

+1. Many places just do not want to bother with the adjustment.