Springs only lower you an 1-1.5 inches. The angle of the axle hardly changes when the car is lowered an inch. It wouldn't require any work. As I've said before, it's a minor, very faint vibration that seems to only occur in second gear 2-3k and has never caused any issues as far as I've seen over the years that it has existed in some cars. IMO it's not something to keep anyone from buying a simple set of springs or anything. The symptoms just don't seem to line up with axle binding or geometry issues.

If you have the chance, find a car lowered on springs and peek your head under. You'll see that the axles are still pointed downwards, close to the original OEM position. Springs only offer a very subtle drop and wouldn't be enough to cause axle binding.

My VW example is from cars lowered 4+ inches when geometry is actually changed a noticeable amount and requires other work to be done.

 

Yes agreed that the vibration MAY BE very slight. Some live with it. However, it is noticable. And no manufacturer or shop (to my knowledge) warns prospective buyers of this issue. Most are just looking to sell and will make statements to influence the buyer not to worry as it's no big deal.

On the contrary, it is an issue. You drive back to back a stock mini with a dropped mini on springs with this issue, and you are a buyer, hands down this insignificant issue will push you away from this lowered mini, even if a lowered car doesn't concern you. You can feel it. It is noticable.

At the end of the day, all the facts should be presented to the buyer and they should make the call un-influenced by seller or manufacturer opinion, unless they have hard evidence in hand to backup what they claim. At this time, I don't see any disclosure like this or any real evidence to show this modification will not have long term negative affects.....


Regardless, I have NM spring on the car, slight vibration at 2500 rpm under acceleration and CHOOSE to live with it.

 

Most don't tell you because it's a very small percentage of people who experience it and we/they still have no idea what it is or what causes it. I'd be surprised if even as many as 10% of lowered MINI owners have the vibration. From my experience, it's a much lower percentage and seems to follow no pattern that I've come up with.

On the contrary, I would never ever drive a MINI that has wheelgap...so I would back away from the stock car and take the lowered car with the ever-so slight vibration

There's plenty of evidence. As I mentioned earlier, I know of numerous high mileage MINI's that have lived with the slight vibration for years with ZERO signs of any negative affects. No busted axles, no torn CV boots, no broken tie rods, or dead transmissions. It's not enough evidence to garauntee anything, but it's enough to suggest that it's not a big deal.

I'm still not even convinced that it's entirely related to the lowering springs, and as such wouldn't expect any company to make any disclosures. If it was entirely related to the lower ride height, I would have experienced it by now on my cars which have gone through numerous suspension setups ranging from 1.4" drop to extremes of 6" of drop. Not a single vibration after 8 years of owning a lowered MINI and the same is true for many other owners. This seems to suggest that it's related to something entirely different that is a pre-existing "issue" that only becomes pronounced when lowered a bit on a select number of cars.

Or maybe it has something to do with the installation. On issues that don't follow any discernible pattern and only happen on random cases, it's always possible that it may have to do with human-based things such as the installation or the resulting alignment. When installing lowering springs, it's possible to pull the axle out of the tranny, mess with the tie rods, install something slightly wrong, mistakenly change the alignment, or a countless number of other scenarios that could play a part in a little vibration.

*I say all of this as an enthusiast and not a vendor. I sell shirts and stickers...not suspension, so I have nothing to hide when it comes to this stuff *

 

I will live with the fender gap rather than risk the vibration. As it was explained to me by the RSX club, the fender gap is a direct measurement of the generation gap. Guilty as charged.

With no technical explanation, I just won't go there. Sorry NM, H&R, Mach V etc. Hint to respectable spring makers of whom I mentioned a cadre, find the answer! Please.

 

Not too sure if my comment applies, but I felt like telling you that I had the NM springs professionally installed by one of the top BMW autoshops in Hawaii. I would have done them myself, but to me, my time is more valuable spent working. Also if I decide to sell, I can say that the suspension work was done professionally.

I've had them on my car for about 200 miles so far, without an alignment(waiting on new tires next week), and I've gone over 100mph a few times. I haven't noticed any new noises or new vibrations that I haven't already heard or felt from the runflats. Not to mention, Hawaii roads are littered with bumps, cracks, and potholes.

 

Just got the H&R Sport Cup Kit installed on my 2009 JCW and the first thing I noticed was the slight vibration on launch (1500 - 2000 rpm). I had the same thing on my 2004 JCW after I installed the Koni Sport Kit (essentially the same setup). On that car I was pretty freaked out about it and asked a lot of questions (and never got a satisfactory answer) but over time it went away completely.

This time I'm not gonna fret it, the car looks great and the ride is improved. It makes me wonder if any of the MINI challenge cars had/have this issue.....

 

This is exactly my experience. I lowered our own R56 S when it was brand new, and now I'm at 38K miles. It does have a faint vibration at 20-25 mph under acceleration. I had not noticed it until a customer asked about it on his car. Then I noticed it on our car. So far I've had no mechanical problems on the car. I can't find anything wrong in the front. The CV joints haven't show signs of any abnormal any wear. My guess is that the vibration has to do with that front CV joint and the axle angle, but as far as I can tell it doesn't hurt anything.

I've tried to locate the source of the vibration, including watching the axles while the car is on the dyno. I haven't found anything.

--Dan
Mach V

 

That's where it gets weird though. If it were due to the angle, it would seem logical that the vibration would get to be more apparent as you lowered the car more and increased the angle further. I can drive my car fully dropped (6"+ drop) and still have no vibration despite the extreme angle of the cv.

 

I sent H&R a "real" letter pleading them to investigate further.
Looking at the threads, no trend for age, amount of drop, camber, or phase of the moon. There is a reason.

 

Like I said previously....when you can't find a reasonable trend, it's worth investigating the human factor of the situation as it contains the greatest variance. It could easily come down to a slight difference in install or something along those lines.

 

So I'm not the only one with this issue...such a relief. At first, I was really paranoid but as days go by, I'm learning to live with it but the thought of the vibration is always in the back of my head.

Besides the vibration, I'm also hearing noises on the front suspension when going over speed bumps, driveways, etc. I've took it back to the mechanic and they assure me nothing was rubbing against the coilovers. Any clue what the noise could be?

R53 Cooper S
Drop: 2.5" all around w/ KW2 Coilovers
Wheels: Rota MC(euro-spec) 18x8
Tires: Toyo T1R 225/35/18
Vibration: Yes (1st to 2nd gear)
Spacer: H&R 5mm on the front
Transmission: 6 speed

 

What kind of noise is it? Clunk, squeak, boing, click?

If it's a clunk, I'll bet that the swaybar end links need to be tightened. It's a common noise after a coilover install. They SEEM to be tight enough, but they'll make a clunk over bumps unless you REALLY tighten them.

 

It's hard to describe the sound that I'm hearing but it could be between a clunk and squeak...like something is loose.

 

Hey All! Been following this thread as an "outsider" and thought I was the only one experiencing the vibration issue, but (and sad to say) I'm glad to see I'm not the only one having it. I have a 2008 MCS and just installed H&R Coilovers (kit #50453 - Street Perf). I get the vibration around 2500-4K RPM's and can replicate the issue in every gear, and experienced the issue the first time I drove it away from the install shop. They lowered it to the kit's max (1.5"), but when I told them about the problem I brought it back in and they decreased the drop to 1". While the vibration *slightly* went away, I'm still encountering the problem, so I called H&R directly and they said "We have never taken a call where someone has this type of issue". Perfect. I asked them for help to troubleshoot the issue and they pointed to Motor Mounts, CV Joints and bushings. They also stated their design/product was TUV approved and almost immediately discounted the product. I bought my car used and sadly discovered it had been in an accident but never reported, so I could have some additional issues. I plan to have those components reviewed, so more to come in a few days. Glad I'm not alone and I'll pursue this issue until it's fixed!

 

Well first thing I would check is the swaybar end links as they are the most common loose item after a coilover install and they will make a clunking.

 

Thanks! I'll give that a try and see how it goes.

 

So my buddy has another installer buddy who done Mini's in the past, and here's his take on it...and I quote:
"
This is a semi-common problem and the solution has been elusive. Some clients have it, some don't. I have owned cars that did it, then transferred the exact setup to another MINI and it didn't do it at all.


It involves the angle and production tolerances on the OEM axles.


Best to either replace the axles, or fiddle with the ride height, or just ignore it.
"

My take is...WTF? First time I've dropped a car and had this issue, so I'm pretty pissed. At this point I either try and locate "better" axles or deal with the issue. What REALLY sux is that if I live with the issue what ELSE am I hurting in the car by running it while vibrating? Over the long haul I'm sure that's not good for Motor mounts, bushings and other suspension/engine components.

 

How bad is your vibration? Most people report the vibration being somewhat subtle. Nothing that subtle is going to hurt motor mounts of bushings which go through far more abusive forces on a daily basis.

 

OK, tolerance of the axles. I'll buy that. BUT, what component, and how is this being excited? There are a lot of parts in the axle, CV's and carriers. As the stock height does not vibrate, don't look to BMW. If it is a resonance of the half-shafts, can mass dampers be added to suppress it? Can the mass be changed to move the resonance into a different range where it does not get excited? Can the fit of the CV's be modified to improve the issue? Is it really the axles and not the supporting bearings in the tyranny or hubs?

If it is a fact it is replicated in every gear, that would lead me AWAY from the axles and into the transmission. Potentially critical information.

"Better" axles? OK are you going to make them? What are you going to do "better" when the cause is not known?

This is not how one investigates a problem. I tried to get a survey going to see if any trends would pop up, but got only a few complete answers.

May I ask again:
Model /year of car
miles on car
Drop
Shock
Camber and toe settings
Is it RPM or speed related ( range where it happens)
Auto or manual
Does it ever not do it?
Is it different if accelerating into the range, or decelerating into the range?
Does how much load you have on it effect it ( acceleration or braking)?
Does it change over time
Does it change with temperature, ambient or operating.
Does turning have an effect on it?

I also ask what the shops have tried. Change index of the axle? Change axle? Change grease? Has anything had an effect, better or worse?

If we could get about 20 complete answers, maybe something could be discovered to test with.

 

They're already sold by multiple aftermarket companies and have larger CV's to handle the angle of being lowered.

I still don't buy that it's the axle angle.

 

Here's the info you asked for, and I have no plans for "better" axles when I have no root cause. I'm just throwing out there what was taken from someone who had a good reputation and has dealt with drops on Mini's. The coilovers are still being worked in too, so I know more settling will occur and would not want to determine final ride height until that process has happened, barring it's a vibration-free height. BTW the handing with these coilovers SMOKES the stock suspension, but at this price is it worth it?

As far as the amount of vibration on my car: it's enough to shake the dash and is something noticeable by my passengers, so yeah this needs to be fixed.

Model /year of car: R56 2008 MCS
miles on car: 21,650
Drop: 1" and 1.5"
Shock: H&R Street Perf Coilovers; Part#50453
Camber and toe settings: @1.5" it was the following (no info after slight lift):
Camber:
Front Left: -.04 Specified Range: -0.9 to -.1
Front Right: -.05 Specified Range: -0.9 to -.1
Back Left: -2.3 Specified Range: -2.1 to -1.4
Back Right: -2.4 Specified Range: -2.1 to -1.4
Front Cross Camber: .1 Specified Range: -.3 to .3
Front Cross Caster: -1.7 Specified Range: -.5 to .5
Front Total Toe: .23 Specified Range: .03 to .37

Toe:
Front Left: .14 Specified Range: 0.2 to.18
Front Right: .09 Specified Range: 0.2 to.18
Back Left: .24 Specified Range: .13 to .27
Back Right: .16 Specified Range: .13 to .27
Rear Total Toe: .4 Specified Range: .27 to .53
Rear Thrust Angle: .04 Specified Range: -.17 to .17

Is it RPM or speed related ( range where it happens)
RPM: 2.5-4K; speed has no affect on vibration
Auto or manual: Manual
Does it ever not do it?: Above 4K RPM it smooths out.
Is it different if accelerating into the range, or decelerating into the range?: Accelerating INTO range and if I hold RPM steady at vibration point. Let off gas and issue subsides.
Does how much load you have on it effect it ( acceleration or braking)? Acceleration only; braking has no affect. Have had passengers in/out of car and vibration ensues.
Does it change over time: Not that I have seen, but have only put 150miles on with them installed.
Does it change with temperature, ambient or operating.: No, but it's been hotter than a pistol in Texas and probably won't cool down until after Oct. Operation temp has no affect either.
Does turning have an effect on it? No

Also note: Running on stock 17's, 205/40/17 runflats.

I also ask what the shops have tried. Change index of the axle? Change axle? Change grease? Has anything had an effect, better or worse?
Shop has tried lifting the car various heights to resolve issue, with raising it only *slightly* affecting vibration; it's not as bad but still very noticeable.

 

Your vibration sounds much more severe than any of the other vibrations I've heard of or come across. Vibrating the dash? That's pretty crazy

 

Yeah no kidding! When the wife says "hey your car is shaking" I knew it was noticeable...

 

Have you tried returning the car to factory ride height with the coilover?

I'm getting ready to install coilovers on my car and if I get the vibration that's the first thing I will do.

 

As far as I know, most coils do not allow adjustment back to factory height. Best (highest) you can do is still about 1" lower than factory.