Suspension Yet Another Strut Brace Thread - Ireland Engineering
Yet Another Strut Brace Thread - Ireland Engineering?
I've been pretty unimpressed with various front strut-top brace products, both from experiencing little or no change with an OMP brace on my `05 S, and from measuring the lack of any motion between the strut towers on an alignment machine.
It seems to me that all of the products I've seen have at least one major flaw, and all but one (the GTT) have the same flaw in common: because they curve to fit over the airbox and ECU cover, they cannot resist compression well. They are basically springs, rather than straight-line braces which could actually prevent any compression or extension.
However, I've recently noticed that Ireland Engineering offers one that is a straight-line steel brace, and is also triangulated so that it could resist fore-and-aft motion between the towers to some degree:
This one looks to me as if it MIGHT (that's a big might) actually do something useful, by contrast to others on the market.
Has anyone tried this strut-top brace? Care to share your experience with it?
It seems to me that all of the products I've seen have at least one major flaw, and all but one (the GTT) have the same flaw in common: because they curve to fit over the airbox and ECU cover, they cannot resist compression well. They are basically springs, rather than straight-line braces which could actually prevent any compression or extension.
However, I've recently noticed that Ireland Engineering offers one that is a straight-line steel brace, and is also triangulated so that it could resist fore-and-aft motion between the towers to some degree:
This one looks to me as if it MIGHT (that's a big might) actually do something useful, by contrast to others on the market.
Has anyone tried this strut-top brace? Care to share your experience with it?
Last edited by OldRick; Oct 13, 2008 at 08:47 AM.
You know, with one built like this, I'd go the extra mile and have it welded on. That way I could keep my m7 tower plates.
This bar would necessitate moving my oil cooler thermostat though. Hmm, maybe if it was welded I'd never get to the oil filter. I'd need to see this in person to make a real decision.
This bar would necessitate moving my oil cooler thermostat though. Hmm, maybe if it was welded I'd never get to the oil filter. I'd need to see this in person to make a real decision.
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Not to demean Ireland or M-M, but many of the vendors source their parts from the same manufacturer, such as these, which appear to be identical aside from paint color. Knowing that, it's sorta tough to become a fanboy...
Last edited by OldRick; Oct 11, 2008 at 07:01 PM.
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This is the one from Mason
While they "look" a like they are different, but there's only so many ways to make a part that bolts to the same places and does the same thing.
Now back to the OP. IE makes some very cool parts, while I'm a vendor of IE I have not seen the new STB's I'm sure they have seen the same level of design and testing all of IE's parts do and will perform very well in AutoX and Track MINI's. FYI, I'm with the crowd that thinks very few daily drivers see any benefit from a STD. They look cool, but the performance value is found at the MINI's limit in turns. All of the above IMHO.
While they "look" a like they are different, but there's only so many ways to make a part that bolts to the same places and does the same thing.
Now back to the OP. IE makes some very cool parts, while I'm a vendor of IE I have not seen the new STB's I'm sure they have seen the same level of design and testing all of IE's parts do and will perform very well in AutoX and Track MINI's. FYI, I'm with the crowd that thinks very few daily drivers see any benefit from a STD. They look cool, but the performance value is found at the MINI's limit in turns. All of the above IMHO.
I agree that a strut-top is only useful at the limits on a MINI, if then, and I wind up doing a LOT of that. I live surrounded by hairpin turns and switchbacks, and I get in several miles of autocross-like mountainous roads on the way to the grocery store and back.
That said, the most obvious benefit for most people, IMHO, is that a STB seems to reduce some of the vibration and road-harshness that excites the interior plastic to sing-along, and to me, that's a reasonable benefit, since the surface of many of my local roads resembles frozen gravel.
The GTT appears to use some of the same obviously-correct design philosophy as the IE - an incompressible straight bar with risers at the ends to get it above the airbox, etc., rather than a curved or bent bar that can act like a spring in compression and extension. That's one reason why the OMP bar is helped by having a length adjuster - you can pre-load the spring.
If there is any value in a strut-top brace, a straight bar is most likely the way to maximize it, so I'll be trying the IE bar soon.
That said, the most obvious benefit for most people, IMHO, is that a STB seems to reduce some of the vibration and road-harshness that excites the interior plastic to sing-along, and to me, that's a reasonable benefit, since the surface of many of my local roads resembles frozen gravel.
The GTT appears to use some of the same obviously-correct design philosophy as the IE - an incompressible straight bar with risers at the ends to get it above the airbox, etc., rather than a curved or bent bar that can act like a spring in compression and extension. That's one reason why the OMP bar is helped by having a length adjuster - you can pre-load the spring.
If there is any value in a strut-top brace, a straight bar is most likely the way to maximize it, so I'll be trying the IE bar soon.
Sometimes the most obvious things elude me.
Yeah she looks like she needs some prescription migraine medicine.....poor thing. I'm sure glad I don't get migraines.
I think I get more comments about this picture than the ones before.
I think that you'd exceed the grip of the tires, even R comps, before you broke any welds from cornering.
I just ordered the IE bar. I confirmed with John Ireland that it is indeed a straight line bar between the risers, and thus is incompressible/unstretchable and not springy like almost all other STBs except the GTT.
I also confirmed that the image is "upside-down"; that is to say that the steel bar spans the front edge of the towers, rather than the rear where the tower is solidly attached to the firewall. This placement also puts the bar within a couple of inches of the top of the cabrio diagonal braces, so they should reinforce each others effects. I've inverted the images at the top of this thread to show the view as if you are looking at it from the front of the car.
These design features give me some hope that this STB will actually be effective, unlike most others on the market.
BTW, if you are a real racer, and could be stressing the car hard enough to break spot-welds, you will have seam-welded the entire body and frame for rigidity and reliability...
I also confirmed that the image is "upside-down"; that is to say that the steel bar spans the front edge of the towers, rather than the rear where the tower is solidly attached to the firewall. This placement also puts the bar within a couple of inches of the top of the cabrio diagonal braces, so they should reinforce each others effects. I've inverted the images at the top of this thread to show the view as if you are looking at it from the front of the car.
These design features give me some hope that this STB will actually be effective, unlike most others on the market.
BTW, if you are a real racer, and could be stressing the car hard enough to break spot-welds, you will have seam-welded the entire body and frame for rigidity and reliability...
Last edited by OldRick; Oct 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM.
I'll shoot some pix installed and will post with comments. I don't track the car, just pound the devil out of it on the local mountain twisties - think MOTD without the traffic...
I've got the OMP lower brace and the cabrio diagonal braces, both of which provide significant improvements. I've tried and sold the OMP strut-top brace, and also tried and sold a Cusco rear body brace.
I'm hopeful that the IE strut-top will be effective...
I've got the OMP lower brace and the cabrio diagonal braces, both of which provide significant improvements. I've tried and sold the OMP strut-top brace, and also tried and sold a Cusco rear body brace.
I'm hopeful that the IE strut-top will be effective...
Last edited by OldRick; Oct 13, 2008 at 10:48 AM.
