So, here's a better thread for those of you who wanted to chime in about TSW's X-brace on my M7 DIY install thread yesterday.

Which one and why? From what little online research I've done, the M7 is about $60 less and the TSW is easier to install. The install isn't a huge factor on either frankly, and while I'm not made of money - that extra $60 won't be missed. Any real-world comparisons you can share? I like to carve up some canyons often but won't be at the track with it.
Thanks
Eric

 

Here comes the part where everyone chimes in to justify their own purchase

I couldn't get past the ease of install of the X-Brace. I have a cabrio, but a number of tin-top owners said my car felt like a tin-top after I installed the X-Brace. I also like the one-piece construction of the X-Brace.

 

Well since you asked...

I've had both and could not fit the USS with the RMW header. The center bar would not fit but the entire front trapezoid would. The USS is constructed of multiple straight sections that are bolted together, the weak are being the connection points. They can and do flex, even when fully tightened there was a slight amount of movement possible. How can this unit suppress movement in the subframe when it can flex it's self.

On track the TSW unit makes the car feel slightly more composed at the limits. On the street I could not really notice a difference.

Disclaimer...I live 5 miles or so from TSW World HQ and my car has been used for test fitments along with beta tests of products.

 

If you powder coat them red they both are great.

Seriously if you ever get around to a roll bar or cage the TSW if the best bet to tie the subframe altogether.

I do believe that gnatster has a roll bar?

 

I don't know - I read the review of the M7 USS on MotoringFile and they were impressed. I assumed that the angle required for the mounting bolts has something to do with flex reduction of the unit itself but what the hell do I know? Only one NAM member (Phantom) gave it a thumbs up thus far. Most seem eager to push the X-Brace. Even those who don't live next to their world headquarters.

 

Its still on my MINI.

 

I have a USS and love it. The install wasn't THAT much of a pain for me... but wasn't trivial, either. I have a modified stock exhaust, so exhaust fitment isn't an issue for me.

I didn't buy it for track performance - my cabrio might see a track once or twice a year - but because I had read other cabrio owner's reviews of the USS improving the composure of the car when cornering on rough pavement. As my car is a daily driver and mountain twisty canyon carver, that matters to me...and I think it does that quite well. Here's my more complete write-up.

That said, when I got mine, the USS and the OMP brace were the only options, and I preferred the design of the USS. The TSW X-brace is a fairly new product. If I didn't own a USS, and were doing it today, I'd probably buy the X-brace. Why? Easier install, a design that *probably* stiffens the chassis even better than the USS, and a design that probably won't be a problem if I decide to replace the exhaust in the future.

One thing the USS does have going for it is that it is BEAUTIFUL, in my opinion... almost too pretty to bolt to the bottom of the car.

FWIW, I've had nothing but excellent service and support from both the M7 and TSW folks.

 

Yes, I do have a triangulated roll bar.

 

This thread was up a couple weeks ago, has some of the info. you are looking for:https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=142987

 

Cool - nice paint job. Or is that powdercoat?

 

Thanks - I guess I didn't flip far enough through the search results.

So, according to RGT, the new X-Braces are steel and not chrome-moly?

 

No problem. You mean, PGT. I'm not really sure what they are made of now. Can't find it on the TSW website? Not sure of the price either, sure would like to know .

 

Are the newst version X Braces from TSW out yet?-had'nt seen them on the site.

 

Ahh yes, PGT - Here's all I found, including price $419 plus shipping. http://www.autoxcooper.com/tsw_suspension.html

 

aahhh.....there it be.man there is no end to the s*** I wanna put on my car

 

Another thing to consider is that USS bars are rectangular, while TSW is cylindrical.. Both are hollow on the inside, however cylinders are inherently stronger by design.

 

Couple of notes.

TSW removes Out of Stock items from their site so they cannot be ordered.

There is a V2 that is constructed out of steel instead of chrome-moly. The walls are thicker on the steel bars. It's slightly heavier, I don't think by much. Probably the difference between driving pre and post daily constitutional. This was done to lower costs yet keep the strength. The mounts have been changed to lower build costs. V1 has a collar that required a multi-angle fish mouth cut to connect the bar and collar. V2 has an L shaped tab, the connection point is now flat removing the complexity of the cut required.

All the info stated above was also posted by TSW recently.

When I was at TSW World HQ a few weeks back the first production V2 one was on hand for inspection before they committed to the run.

 

So did they give any info. on how much it will cost?

 

I might be selling my TSW brace for $350 shipped if anyone is interested. I am going to be returning my car to stock soon

 

My problem with the M7 unit is the holes used to fasten the nutserts are drain holes...and here in the northeast, road salt and condensation is a big deal.

 

OMP brace anyone?

 

I wanted to put some info out there regarding design/construction on the topics mentioned above. First, stiffness is key here over strength. Stiffness = resistance to deformation under bending load, Strength = resistance to deformation under tensile load. You can make something that is very strong but flexible (suspension bridges) or something that is very stiff but brittle (carbon fiber monocoques). Since this brace will not see a high degree of tensile/compression load, stiffness is key. Remember that when making your decision.

The use of cylindrical tubes assures equal stiffness in deflection from its logical linear axis - that is it is equally stiff regardless of what angle you try to bend it. The use of rectangular tubes can allow for greater stiffness than a cylindrical in a given direction but will suffer in a 90º opposed direction. The cross section that will provide the greatest overall stiffness per unit weight is the cylindrical tube.

It would seem to me that the use of bolts in the M7 would negate any stiffness advantages gained by assumedly proper use of rectangular tubing.

Also, regarding "steel" vs "chromoly" - A) people forget that Chromoly is just a type of steel with a high chromium and molybdenum content. It is strong and hard. Chromoly is stronger than mild steel, but not significantly stiffer and is much more expensive. B)A *great* feature of steel in general is that its strength/stiffness is highly effected by the heat treating applied... which goes out the window as soon as you start welding. Chromoly is no exception and in fact can become quite brittle if welded and not heat-treated after welding.

With that said, I would take the TSW brace in mild steel over any of the other options... although coming with a background from this particular portion of industry I think the price is a bit high.

 

I've owned Cusco bracing on my Subaru (cheap and effective), the USS on my wife's Cabrio, the USS on my Coupe and lastly the TSW X-brace on my Coupe. I wish the TSW was priced like the Cusco sets ($150 front, $150 rear with the front being an 'x-brace too'), but, there's no contest b/t the USS and X-brace in my opinion. Too many drawbacks w/ the USS a mentioned....mounts with nutserts to the drainholes instead of hardened suspension pickup points (the place theoretically where the load of the suspension laterally on cornering hits the chassis...the very place you want to reinforce), finicky install, etc. The ONLY downside to the TSW is cost and some of us don't mind paying a bit more for performance.

 

FTW!

 

TSW X brace V1 here. On a cabrio. I do notice a difference. Side notes, one is that the rear view mirror vibrates MUCH less than before. Other is I actually had a driver on a run come to talk to me about what mods I had afterwords. He said I showed less body roll than his car and those ahead of me.

I have no other suspension mods, so it might have just been smoother entry too.