Suspension Springs, struts, coilovers, sway-bars, camber plates, and all other modifications to suspension components for Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S (R56), and Cabrio (R57) MINIs.

Suspension How much front negative camber?

Old May 16, 2008 | 10:48 PM
  #1  
Iautox's Avatar
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How much front negative camber?

I've got an 07 MCS that I am autocrossing and opentracking occassionally. I'm trying to keep this low key and keep the car very streetable. For years I had a Mustang 5.0 that morphed from a daily driver to a nearly unstreetable track car with full Griggs suspension, gold track diff., etc.

I just want to keep my Mini close to stock. So far I've just put a 22 mm adjustable rear bar on, got some BFG KD 215/50/16s on Rota Slipstream 6.5x16 wheels, bought a CG Clip, dusted off my driving suit and I've just added Ireland Engineering adjustable street camber plates. I've also got a set of Hawk HP plus front pads ready for the next track event. I just want to show up for autocrosses and run after adjusting tire pressures. For track events I'll just pop in a new set of pads the night before an event. Hopefully the HP plus will be enough on street tires. If not I'll go to some HT-10s and swap in another set of rotors for the track events.

So on to the the camber plates. On my Mustang I could simply raise the front and push the plates into the setting I wanted without much change to the toe. On the Mini the toe changes a lot as negative camber is increased. It is not possible to go from say, 1 degree negative to 3 degrees negative without also adjusting the toe.

I think I have two alternatives here other than adjusting the toe along with the camber. I can push the plates in, in a narrow range - maybe negative 2 degrees to negative 3 or 1.5 to 2.5 and set the toe so that it stays in a range that is acceptable at either setting, but not optimized for either. Or I can set the toe to the maximum negative that the tires can take without wearing out the inside too quickly and optimize the toe for this camber setting. This is the option I favor. Therefore my question is: What is the maximum amount of negative camber I can run without wearing out the inside of the front tires? My wife drives the Mini daily and does not corner hard and we do some Mini events were we put on several hundred miles in a week or weekend. We also take at least one long trip a year - about 3,000 miles. I'm thinking that 1.5 negative is surely safe and more that 2.5 is probably too much. So maybe 2 or 2.25? Your thoughts are appreciated!
 
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Old May 17, 2008 | 01:16 AM
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cmt52663
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set the max you can get, set toe for that, and run it

i've run 30k street miles on -2.5 (using coil overs) front camber without tire wear problems

without smaller diameter springs or coil overs you'll probably wind up with -1.5 or so

not a bother, truly

azenis in '06, and kooks in '07 - both purchased shaved and run over 10k miles without issue
 
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Old May 17, 2008 | 01:16 AM
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< dup post >
 

Last edited by cmt52663; May 17, 2008 at 01:51 AM.
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Old May 17, 2008 | 01:16 AM
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as much as you can get without rubbing the springs on the liner...

< dup post >
 

Last edited by cmt52663; May 17, 2008 at 01:52 AM.
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Old May 17, 2008 | 08:34 AM
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1/8 total toe out and -2 for the streets will be ok. IF you do alot of highway that toe will be more a issue then the camber in terms of wear.

BTW where did you get HP+ for a 07? I have no been able to get some.
 
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Old May 17, 2008 | 09:42 AM
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R56 HP plus front brake pads

I got the HP plus pads from Detroit Tuned a vendor here. They were good to work with and Chad took some time to give me some advice. The only bad thing was that I got the Ireland Engineering camber plates from them. Ireland doesn't include any directions or even an assembly drawing so I did not realize that the spacers were missing. Fortunately my mechanic is a road racer and does a lot of race car fabbing in his shop so he made up some better spacers and changed the snap ring to a spiral lock on the bearing. We can get close to 3 degrees negative camber with the plates without hitting the inside fender. The swaybar links are the point of interference and they could be ground some.

Back to brake pads. I can only find HP plus and EBC Yellow pads for the front of the R56. Nothing for the back. I think the HP plus will be track worthy with street tires. I read mixed reviews on the EBC Yellows. Eventually (once I'm out of warranty and don't get free rotors) I'll likely get some 'track' rotors and switch them out with track pads. Hawk is promising to make other compounds for the R56. I've had good luck with Blues in the past, but I think the HT 10 are likely a newer, better, formulation so I'd like to try them. I also need to wait until the aftermarket starts making R56 rotors so the price comes down.

I believe that Carbotech is also making some pads for the R56. I think they have some rear pads too. I've used Carbotech in the past and did not find them to be very good pads. The company has changed hands since I've bought pads and I'm sure their formula's have changed as well. I was thinking for trying them again, but my mechanic says they don't have a very good reputation with SCCA racers, at least the ones he knows from Colorado and surrounding areas. I think those opinions may date back to previous ownership as well. I'd probably give them a try if they weren't so expensive and I didn't like Hawk.
 
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Old May 17, 2008 | 09:55 AM
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i have tracked HP+ for many years on my ITR and it was great.

that being if you over wortk them they die.

I switched to GrandSport GS3 from Satisfied brakes...The are unbelievable pads for track and sprint races and can be street driven in the summmer if you heat them up a few blocks, but the do eat up the rotors fast.
 
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