Suspension Is there a verdict on shock tower plates?
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
easiest way to understand understeer/oversteer for me was this:
too much oversteer: you turn and the car's tailend comes around
understeer: you turn and the car continues moving forward vs turning on a radius
for those worried about uneven tire wear for highway driving with camber plates, an option is to get adjustable camber plates and have the car aligned to the OEM spec of -.5... easily done. but you wont be taking full advantage of the camber plates during those spirited runs through the twisties
too much oversteer: you turn and the car's tailend comes around
understeer: you turn and the car continues moving forward vs turning on a radius
for those worried about uneven tire wear for highway driving with camber plates, an option is to get adjustable camber plates and have the car aligned to the OEM spec of -.5... easily done. but you wont be taking full advantage of the camber plates during those spirited runs through the twisties
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Western MA
Get them on, because my car with only 14,000 miles on it was already showing some mushrooming. I barely got the drivers side on because one of the bolts was slightly at an angle. I just wish craven incorperated a strut tower bar into the design. That would also help support the shock towers.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,010
Likes: 11
From: Ridgefield, CT
Dean.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: nnj
for those worried about uneven tire wear for highway driving with camber plates, an option is to get adjustable camber plates and have the car aligned to the OEM spec of -.5... easily done. but you wont be taking full advantage of the camber plates during those spirited runs through the twisties
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Think about your installation with the STD's.
If you simply faithfully follow the directions provided by Craven, you can very easily loose your front end alignment....you are replacing the three fasteners that hold your front end stability.
be careful.....
If you simply faithfully follow the directions provided by Craven, you can very easily loose your front end alignment....you are replacing the three fasteners that hold your front end stability.
be careful.....
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,010
Likes: 11
From: Ridgefield, CT
Thanks.
Dean.
Edit:
Okay, now I've thought this through. All the bolts do is hold the top of the strut plate in place. How could the alignment be affected ?
Last edited by reelsmith.; Jun 25, 2008 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Uh ....to edit.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Western MA
Our struts cant be adjusted, the strut towers have no slots for making adjustments.
Last edited by lordgrinz; Jun 25, 2008 at 05:13 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
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From: Huntsville, AL
Come, come, Peter. It took me 30 minutes and I didn't have all the right tools (like the right deep socket).
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 0
From: Huntsville, AL
Also,
I hope it doesn't screw up alignment to install Cravens. I was careful not to rock the car or move it. And the adapter bolts that fit over the original strut bolts act like nuts when tightened down, so the strut is not unsupported very long at all. And if you tighten sequentially and gradually like good technique requires, I don't know how you can screw up the alignment.
Please provide reasoning.
I hope it doesn't screw up alignment to install Cravens. I was careful not to rock the car or move it. And the adapter bolts that fit over the original strut bolts act like nuts when tightened down, so the strut is not unsupported very long at all. And if you tighten sequentially and gradually like good technique requires, I don't know how you can screw up the alignment.
Please provide reasoning.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,010
Likes: 11
From: Ridgefield, CT
More on this here ...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=145331
Sounds very much like a non issue to me.
Dean.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=145331
Sounds very much like a non issue to me.
Dean.
I can't see how installing those strut defender plates will adversely effect your alignment. There is no camber adjustment on a stock MINI that could be changed.
I've had my M7 Strut bar & plates on since I bought my MINI. At 33,000 miles my strut housings are intact with zero bending.
At 33,000 I installed the IE fixed camber plates. Now at 41,000 everything is still as it should be. The IE plates are beefy & IMO will help keep everything ship shape. The big bonus is the negative camber you'll add to the front end. On my car it's 1.9 & 1.8 degrees negative. The handling is much improved & my tire wear after 8,000 miles of use is looking very good.
One word of caution. If you install the IE fixed camber plates get to an alignment shop asap. Installing them will cause the car to gain a ton of toe in. Easily adjusted out with an alignment.
Two thumbs up.
I've had my M7 Strut bar & plates on since I bought my MINI. At 33,000 miles my strut housings are intact with zero bending.
At 33,000 I installed the IE fixed camber plates. Now at 41,000 everything is still as it should be. The IE plates are beefy & IMO will help keep everything ship shape. The big bonus is the negative camber you'll add to the front end. On my car it's 1.9 & 1.8 degrees negative. The handling is much improved & my tire wear after 8,000 miles of use is looking very good.
One word of caution. If you install the IE fixed camber plates get to an alignment shop asap. Installing them will cause the car to gain a ton of toe in. Easily adjusted out with an alignment.
Two thumbs up.
They Do Work
About a week ago I had a lady come in for her regular service and while I was doing the oil change I checked over the car. I found her rt front strut tower was broken from hitting a pot hole, But 2 years ago I had installed the M7 strut tower plates and they did their job. Her strut tower was straight as can be. Just replaced the broken mount and she was good to go. So if your on the fence if they work or not, I've now seen it actually work so I have to believe.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
About a week ago I had a lady come in for her regular service and while I was doing the oil change I checked over the car. I found her rt front strut tower was broken from hitting a pot hole, But 2 years ago I had installed the M7 strut tower plates and they did their job. Her strut tower was straight as can be. Just replaced the broken mount and she was good to go. So if your on the fence if they work or not, I've now seen it actually work so I have to believe.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
here's a broken one (screwdriver is pointing at the crack):
Last edited by glnr13; Jun 27, 2008 at 04:19 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
Thanks for the clarification. That is a stock plate I'm guessing.
he's talking about part #1 in the diagram if you follow this link: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...41&hg=31&fg=10
here's a broken one (screwdriver is pointing at the crack):
here's a broken one (screwdriver is pointing at the crack):
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
Sorry, not being **** here---just want to be sure that the condition of that plate cannot be seen/checked from the open bonnet side, right? You gotta look up into the wheel well.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
Oh, right. (Duh! 
) You see the top of that plate through the hole at the top of the strut tower. (Mine looks fine )
Thanks for the clarification.
) You see the top of that plate through the hole at the top of the strut tower. (Mine looks fine )Thanks for the clarification.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 1
AliceCooper and ResMini, you must be talking about M7 plates. I've got Cravens and the bolt adapters fully engage all of the threads that protrude above the top of the tower, and the retaining nuts lock an inch below the tops of the adapters, so they're fully engaged.
BREAK
Understeer means the front end doesn't want to turn or that the back end wants to break loose? Like tight orloose in NASCAR?
BREAK
Understeer means the front end doesn't want to turn or that the back end wants to break loose? Like tight orloose in NASCAR?
Oops...I'm a bit late, but no. I meant the IE fixed camber plates. I wasn't referring to a top plate. I don't think they are necessary, but they look cool.
I'll bump my question again...
Does anyone know of anyone who has had mushrooming after the install of any kind of thick metal camber plate, whether fixed or adjustable? I have read stories about mushrooming after tower plates, but I have not heard anything about additional deformation after getting better strut mounts.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
I'm going to guess that with a strong enough strut plate, any really strong impact is going to start deforming the wheel instead. It's all about the amount of force and the "weakest link" in the whole wheeel suspension setup, right? So, if the strut tower is all beefed up with the stronger plates, then probably the wheel is the next weakest thing to buckle.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 961
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From: San Francisco
Yep... I have a set of those in the garage right now waiting to be installed in a friend's MCS. Nicely made, I must say... although the bearing mount between the plate and the strut does not look good for ride quality... 
I'll try to explain the functional difference between the M7 and Craven plates... Simply put, The strut mount is the part that is failing. The mushrooming of the tower is secondary damage. This is why everyone says to really fix the problem, install camber plates.
The M7 plates reinforce the assembly by adding thickness to the tower, but does little to keep the mounting studs aligned due to required manufacturing tolerances of the mounting holes and the limited size of the studs. The Craven plate reinforces the strut mount by increasing the effective size of the mounting studs and then tieing all three together.
Because the M7 plate is designed to make use of the OE strut mount studs, the actual mounting surface and contact between the parts is only marginally increased and because the actual mounting thickness of the plate at the stud is relatively thin, the studs can still splay out, although to a lesser extent than if bare. I know this for fact from when I removed M7 plates that I had previously installed. They went on easily as the strut mounts were brand new. I almost needed a pry-bar to get the damn thing past the splayed studs after a coupple of years of daily driving..
Bashing M7 is not my intention. I'm just telling my experience. When the whole mushrooming issue came to light a couple of years ago, we purchased the M7 plates in an effort to prevent it. However, I was never very happy with how they fit, so we continued to look for new options. After installing both on a number of cars, I like the design of the Craven plates better and I hope I've adequately explained why. If another company comes along and offers a new design and it turns out the Craven plates aren't doing the job, I'll give thsoe a try. If you have M7 plates and they're working for you, there's no reason to change.
I'll try to explain the functional difference between the M7 and Craven plates... Simply put, The strut mount is the part that is failing. The mushrooming of the tower is secondary damage. This is why everyone says to really fix the problem, install camber plates.
The M7 plates reinforce the assembly by adding thickness to the tower, but does little to keep the mounting studs aligned due to required manufacturing tolerances of the mounting holes and the limited size of the studs. The Craven plate reinforces the strut mount by increasing the effective size of the mounting studs and then tieing all three together.
Because the M7 plate is designed to make use of the OE strut mount studs, the actual mounting surface and contact between the parts is only marginally increased and because the actual mounting thickness of the plate at the stud is relatively thin, the studs can still splay out, although to a lesser extent than if bare. I know this for fact from when I removed M7 plates that I had previously installed. They went on easily as the strut mounts were brand new. I almost needed a pry-bar to get the damn thing past the splayed studs after a coupple of years of daily driving..
Bashing M7 is not my intention. I'm just telling my experience. When the whole mushrooming issue came to light a couple of years ago, we purchased the M7 plates in an effort to prevent it. However, I was never very happy with how they fit, so we continued to look for new options. After installing both on a number of cars, I like the design of the Craven plates better and I hope I've adequately explained why. If another company comes along and offers a new design and it turns out the Craven plates aren't doing the job, I'll give thsoe a try. If you have M7 plates and they're working for you, there's no reason to change.
Last edited by MichaelSF; Sep 7, 2008 at 08:56 AM.