Thanks - depending on which components are available separately, all I really need is the pressurized shock body/shaft - no spring perches, no adjusting rings, and I don't even need the threaded bottom that has the lower shock mount eye.

 

Has anyone tried these and Bilstein PSS9's, preferably on the same MINI?

 

RMW sells different rear dampers than I do. I have the "C" damper which has a longer body and a standard spring rate of 7/4. The shorter dampers have less travel and require stiffer springs (by definition).

CROSS coilovers are a nice Grand Touring system. I think they are a smart choice for those who do mostly street driving with an occasional track day or autocross. They fit nicely between Koni Yellows and anyone’s lowering spring (1980s technology) and Ohlins (state-of-the-art race setup).

These cars are not track ready out of the box -- to do it properly much work is required. A larger rear sway bar is pretty much required if you drive hard on the track. (Stock is fine for the street.)

 

Ok, so why such a difference in performance? Jan says that there is no need for bigger sways and love these things to death. Even for the track. Why is yours kind of the opposite? I thought that Cross's were supposed to be track crushers? For over $2,000 they better be .

 

Good to know. Anyone that wants a MINI that sits higher with the longer shock body and wants more understeer with that softer rear spring should choose your version of the JIC coilovers.

 

Hmm, well, I'm tired of starting pissing matches in my own threads, so all I can say is that I had to dial out about 1º of camber in the back and set my 19mm sway back to the middle, cause my back end kept coming around in turns. Right now i'm set up for slight oversteer. I'll probably end up setting my sway bar full soft, as it's too much to handle as a daily driver right now. The back end just comes right out from under me if I push the car. Jan is running the stock swaybar on his GP still.

 

Hopefully mine I will have time Thursday to install my Cross. I will put my 22mm sway on full soft and I'm guessing of doing the front softer than you because I drive a lot. I'm think 6 in the front and 7 in the back or 6 all the way around depending in the back kicks out.
mario

 

I'd be interested in hearing the difference between the 80s tech and $2400 coilovers, both from Don and Rusty and anyone else. Finally got around to replacing the stock shocks with Yellows and have been impressed with the step up, seems adequate for my purposes (mostly street driving with an occasional track day or autocross).

(But hell, if I had the money to spend I probably would. )

 

The length of the shock body does not raise the ride height of the CROSS system.
Understeer is not an issue on the street or track. Comfort and safety, however, are and that is why 7/4 is my chosen preference.

 

As for the track, I can only say they are the best compromise I have found for dual purpose cars -- we install these on both MINIs and Porsches.
As far as I know RMW was very just recently were introduced to the CROSS system.
There are no coilovers that are "track crushers" that sell for $2400. CROSS Competition Coilovers they are a GT system even though the name indicates otherwise.

 

Thanks for clearing this up. I was not trying to start a pissing match like rustyboy155 claims. He took my question out of context. I just wondered what the differences were. Thanks again dmh.

 

If you don't mind reducing up-travel, then yes. Hardly an acceptable solution though.



As far as you know, which could mean nothing at all.

 

I may be missing something, but I have DMH's version of the CROSS coilovers, and I don't think "sits higher" is a problem...



This was before the final adjustments were done, so the front wasn't as low as it could have gone. On the rears, the threaded bottom mount is screwed pretty much all the way onto the shock body, and there's no pre-load on the springs.

 

wow....that's way low in the back

 

Yep - I've since lowered the front a little bit and raised the rear a little bit to even them out. But even when the rear was that low, I never had any bottoming issues, since the ride height adjustment is independent of the spring preload. And that's with a fully-optioned convertible and the lighter 4kg springs in the back.

 

Any idea if you're sitting on the bumpstops with no preload on those 4kg/mm springs?

 

Well, I'm not positive how I would tell, but the ride certainly doesn't feel rough or jarring. Just doing some simple math, I figure my car weighs about 3000 pounds with me in it. With a 60/40 weight distribution, that puts roughly 1200 pounds on the rear wheels, or about 600 pounds per rear side. With the spring constant of 4kg/mm, that should compress the spring about 2.7". Since the shock is pressurized, the pressure of the shock will reduce the resting spring compression a little bit, so I'm probably looking at something less than 2.7". I don't know how much compression travel the shock has, so I can't figure anything else out beyond that.

 

Consider the motion ratio for the rear trailing arm is something like 0.87:1

wheel rate = spring rate in lb/in * motion ratio ^2
wheel rate = 225 * 0.76
wheel rate = 171lb/in

600 pounds per tire in back over 171 pounds per inch of compression = 3.5" of wheel compression or about 3.0" of spring compression with no spring preload. It would definitely be good to know if you have any uptravel, if for nothing else, to prevent snap oversteer in slippery situations or a mid-corner bump.

 

So the trailing arm acts as a lever, applying more force to the spring than simply the supported weight of the car? That's good to know - thanks.

I was looking at your post regarding the suspension measurements you took on the R56, and I'm a little bit confused about what you call "uptravel". Could you describe it in terms of compression, rebound, and the resting position of the shock shaft within the body when the car's just sitting on its suspension?

 

the suspension is loaded when the car is on the ground. if there's no preload on the spring, when the suspension becomes unloaded (uptravel or full extension) over a bump or drop in the road surface, that's the concern

 

Okay - I think what's you're calling "uptravel" is what I'm used to hearing referred to as "rebound".

Just to make sure I understand, if I increase the preload on the springs by moving the lower spring perch upwards on the shock body, the shock shaft would be further out of the shock during rest, increasing the amount of compression travel available, while reducing the amount of rebound travel by the same amount, right?

So the concern with not having preload is that the spring can come unseated from the perches when the suspension is unloaded?

 

I wasn't referring to your comment Chris, I was just trying to answer your question, sorry if it seemed like I was taking a shot at you. I was talking about Don's comment regarding the necessity of a rear sway bar when under normal street conditions I can throw my back end around with little more than a quick jerk of the steering wheel.

As to "Full Race Setups". Some people want to spend the extra 15k for that 3% improvement. I'd rather spend that money on mods that actually do something.

I can't think of any application for the MINI that these coilovers wouldn't be sufficient. Perhaps if you were competing in an international cup race or something against hundreds of top notch drivers . For the average Joe Schmoe that used to go to the track with his stock suspension, these are night and day difference.

 

yes. minimum proper preload = no spring movement when uninstalled on the car. anything less is not recommended though I'm sure someone on NAM will contradict this.

 

That's pretty much what the directions said - before installing the coilovers, raise the lower spring perch so that the spring is snugly held between the perches, but no more than that.

That's how I installed them, and I haven't changed the preload since then, since the ride height is adjusted by using the threaded lower mount to adjust the length of the shock body, rather than by adjusting the preload.

 

I'm probably going to end up running 9 Front 8 Rear at the track this weekend. I'll also probably end up setting my 19mm sway to full soft, I need to dial out some of that oversteer, and i'd rather not mess with my camber.

You may want to run 5 front and 4 rear if you want a softer ride. None of the settings i've tried so far have been truly harsh. It's so easy to change the settings, i'd just start down low and work your way up. I started at 7 and 8, Right now i'm at 8 and 8. Even in LA I don't find it very rough (I drive 70 miles a day to and from work). It's hard to explain. The way it dampens, it doesn't feel rough at all. It's stiff, much stiffer than both of my old setups, but the ride is more comfortable than stock even.