well, i will start with the story, skip to next paragraph if you dont want to hear about my day at the races. Last night i decided im going to go racing today. Half way threw my first run, i miss a gate, and whilst trying to turn to go back, still at a high rate of speed, my car decided to stop turning, and stop, well, stopping. Weird, cause my car oversteers like you wouldnt believe. Anyway, i smack into a curb, about 5 inches high, doing about 40mph. the curbed section was only about 2 feet wide. So i figure my day is done, and i drive (amazingly) back to the parking area to survey the damage. The martial that was there, comes running over with what was left of my bumper in his hands yelling "Oh my god, you were fully airborn for like 6 feet!!!" That explained how i hit my head off my roof (and im not tall). No one could believe the car was still driving, never mind almost undamaged. I did however, bend one front rim, and scrap 3 tires (that needed replacing anyway, but everyone is out of the falkens i want), bend probably both front control arms, one for sure, and one i just assume, and i threw my alignment all out of whack, hahah, what a shock eh? So thats how my day went, how was yours?

On to my question now. Im looking for front control arms. I figure i might as well go aftermarket, since buying the alta psrs and factory control arms, is going to be just as much as the madness arms, i might as well buy the madness arms. Is there anything bad about them? I remember a couple years ago, there were issues with someones front control arms, but dont remember whos they were. Is there anyone elses i should look at? I thought alta made some, but they are not on their site. And i knew M7 made some, but doesnt appear so anymore? Anything else i should consider while im under there? (probably a good time to do a front sway bar i guess, but i ment steering wise). Any suggestions? I will problaby be making extensive use of k-huevo's install how-to (thanks keith). Hope everyone had a slightly better day than i did (although i did get alot of attention, and the guy who was riding with me had to phone his wife, and get the kids out there to show them the huge gauges i made, as soon as my friend emails me the pics, i will post them, they really are a work of art, hahahah. isnt aderexia wonderful?? I just wish there was a pic of me fully airborn is all, and a video would have been wild)

Beecher

 

and actually, the funny thing is, i drove it back on the highway for about an hour, and it drives straight as ever, and even stops straight, even ard braking. The wheel isnt straight anymore, and its all over the place on bumps, but no shaking, no noise, and still drives straight. My one friend coulnt belive it because his sister hit a racoon and had to replace the rad and ac compressor, and a whole bunch of stuff, and mine was all left intack, guess i was really lucky as far as that goes.

Beecher

 

I remember seeing a thread some time ago about one of the aftermarket arms having recurring problems with cracking. Searched for it, but couldn't find. You might have better luck.

 

yeah, i remembered reading that one two, but also couldnt find it. I think that may have been the m7 arms, but could be mistaken

thanks

Beecher

 

The posts can’t be found because they were censored & deleted, it was an M7 marketed product, Jan was the user with the failure and he was banned at the time, Andy Smith (andy@ross-tech) posted the photos with a link which is not allowed under forum guidelines. So, the person to contact about the failure is Jan at RMW.

That particular set of events was very contentious and may be why Andy no longer interjects perspectives of reason into our forums; besides being bored with it all.

There was one other tube arm failure that received a passing blurb in a post, never to be mentioned again, in that instance I read a Delrin bushing was utilized and I think Delrin is not compliant enough for the control arm’s range of movement.

 

That's not the first time a useful thread has been deleted on NAM for telling the truth.

Keith,
BTW, that GP IC I got from you is working great. The butt dyno isn't registering much more, but the engine feels much smoother under full power.

 

Madness is the only aftermarket control arm I am aware of. I am not sure it would be the best thing for a car doing lots of track days tho. It looks like it might not stand up to the track use as well as the stock one would. I have absolutely no expereince with it, but I saw it at AMVIV and it looked a bit lightweight.

 

ive never tracked, and dont do much autocross. Would like to do more, but can never find the time, so this is mostly street driven, and ive only put maybe 2500 miles on in the last 9 months, and dont drive it in the winter at all, and try to stay out of the rain. Dont see that situation changing in the future either. If this had to be my daily car, i wouldnt even consider these things i dont think, but since rubber is disapearing from everywhere else in my car, might as well take it out here as well. maybe im nuts

Beecher

thanks for the input, i guess i will order a set

 

After an altercation with a K-Barrier at CAl Speedway, (see my gallery for some pics), I've become aware of how BMW designed the MINI for accidents. Different parts of the car body and suspension are designed to collapse or bend on impact. One such part is the front control A-arm/wishbone. It has built in bend points. This I assume to keep the wheel/tire assembly away from your feet in a accident. These units are extremely strong and it would take quit some impact to bend them. Our Mini is strictly a track/race car. I wouldn't want to use any other front arm as all the force of front wheel drive are acting on these arm.

I'm replacing both arms this weekend.

 

Are yours worn out?

 

mine, no, they only have about 20k miles on them, but i assume your talking to him, but ive already typed it, so your getting it now, lol

Beecher

 

oh, and rpterson, thats good thinking, i never thought about that stuff. How much of your stuff bent when you hit the wall? I checked the crush tubes on mine, and they didnt look any differnet, and none of my body panels are misaligned, so i think its just my arms tho.

Thanks for the input

Beecher

 

Ive seen a front control arm fail and a mini roll 3x at a track event.. ive always wondered what the strength of the stock arms are, what to do to make sure they are 100% and if aftermarket will give more strength.

phil.

 

Well, I'm using a set of custom built M7 arms for my racecar. I redesigned and built my own rear bushings which was in my mind was the absolute reason for past failures of these arms.
Now, as far as I know Madness is the only one selling these arms. They look good and the bushings look right on, .... BUT, I'm not sure you want to use them on a dailey driver. They will be quite harsh.
Do yourself a favor and stick with the factory arms, and maybe think about the Alta bushings, though I can't recomend them as I have never seen a set.

 

LOL Yep it was a question to rp.....

 

thanks greg, i was hopping you would chime in. I dont drive it that often anymore, in the first year i put about 17k, and in the last 9 months, like 2500 or so. I have a couple other cars to drive as well, and i only do pleasure driving anymore. Just out of curiosity, wouldnt the stock arms with alta bushings basically be the same set up as the madness ones? Or are you more concerned with strength?

thanks

 

No, not cocerned with strength, at least yet..
The Alta bushings have some compliance I think. They are still a mystery to me, but a freind has a set and tells me that they seem to have a delrin bushing or something like that. Just don't know.
The Madness are as solid as you can get, so you will feel and hear the road quite a bit.
I realy need to get some track time on my car before I can really say for sure.

 

Beecher and Greg,

Good question, Beecher old buddy. I'd recommend the stock arms and the Alta bushing system for a street car. For a dual purpose car like mine, or for a track car like Greg's, I'd give serious thought to the Madness front arms.

I had been running on the track and on the street the second set of M7 tubular arms for 3 years with no, repeat "no", problems what so ever. I agree with Greg, that the solid Delrin bushing with the M7 system was a limitation. When the Madness arms came available, I "upgraded" to the Madness arms with the spherical ball joint bushing system and am happy. Can tell no practical difference anywhere, but I sleep much better on the nights before track days, believing that the stresses on the front arms are reduced with the ball joint bushing system.

On the street the arms feel fine, and any secondary steering and chassis movements associated with the rubber control arm bushings are totally eliminated. At the track, the reduced unsprung weight that comes from the tubular arms and lightweight wheels counts for something. My street situation is a bit "rough" with 250# springs all the way around and spherical ball joints everywhere, and I do mean "everywhere" front and back, where there once was a rubber bushing. I just set my struts at full "soft" and float a bit down the road. My wife doesn't complain about the ride. For the track, I crank up the damping, the floating goes away and the car feels quite tight.

I think that all of the subjective concerns about ride quality with a low compliance suspension are a bit exaggerated. That said, I'll admit that all roads in this country aren't as well maintained as those in Seattle. An additional reason that my ride experience is so positive is that my struts are single adjustable LEDA's, which permit a coupled compression and rebound adjustment. So, as with so many modifications, one modification leads to another modification .......... However, a logical set of modifications such as a low compliance suspension plus an adjustable strut can allow one to tune the ride to the situation quite satisfactorily.

Anyway, anyway; for the street the stock arms and Alta bushing system would be very hard to beat and you probably won't notice any significant degredation of ride quality.

John Petrich in Seattle

 

no matter the brand, if you go to an aftermarket arm, increase your inspection frequency. The short truth about them is that they are less strong and much, much lighter than the stockers. The benefits from them are really for the track rat crowd, as the change in unsprung weight will be almost unnoticable on the street, so the increase in risk isn't really worth it.

And Greg, the Alta system just captures a spherical delrin bushing in a metal housing. It's not in the center of the bushing housing, so that some additional caster can be added to the suspension geometry. The sphere has a circular hole in it, and a SS sleve is put over the shaft on the stock arm.

Matt

 

ive been meaning to email you john, just havnt got around to it yet. I figured you probably had done something. Been meaning to get back to you about the spacers as well. Hopefully when i get home from work tonight i will send you one.

thanks everyone, lots more stuff to think about now.

Beecher