There have been several threads on this issue and even a service bulletin # posted on NAM from Mini for a flush out of brown coolant. service measure 17 201 03..was posted I believe

Mini USA and Niello Mini say there is no such # and no reference to the issue
I know the claim is that it is not a problem and the coolant does check to -20 with my Hygrometer, but I can see a bit of sediment particles in it...
I have to go to the dealer (Niello in Sacramento Ca...about 120 Mi from my house) for my last free service and a few repairs (siezed PS Fan...even with the debris screen...$160 part from the dealer) and they act like they never heard of the brown coolant issue . Mine is an 04 MCS with a dec 03 build date
I usually do coolant changes on my other autos at between 2-3 yrs NOT 4 YRS...We have VERY hot summers and cold winters here in Reno

(If I were not still under warranty, I would tap and install a normal drain valve in the radiator!) Not looking forward to a coolant shower from the lower hose!

There are also vacuum venturi pumps that purge the air from the system (AFTER you drain the radiator and tank....) and then refill without air problems

TIA

 

I also have an 04 with brown coolant, and the dealer said it was normal. I will be changing the coolant in the next couple of weeks.

 

Thanks for your confirmation!

I love my Mini but I am not going for this 10,000 mi oil chg 4 yr coolant stuff. Been at autos for 30 yrs and when there is "stuff" floating in the coolant it can and usually will cause trouble and cavitation in the h20 pump.(along with a possible acid buildup which will destroy components over time.)

I am not as concerned with the dye color as I am with the particles.

If I get the same answer next week, I have one of those vacuum air tools that will fill without the burping you have to do these days (UVIEW) they are relatively cheap but you need a compressor which I have (too can be had for $65 on line. It also checks for leaks). Still not sure how I am going to handle the old coolant left in the block....could use the tool 3 times or so with Reverse Osmosis h20 fills (I have an RO in the kitchen) and then do the coolant mix for real but then I am concerned about the 50/50 mix....I'll figure something out.....if I have to.

Mini is great on some things and terrible on others....When a dealer refuses obvious service/warranty needs, I always put myself on record for the future....They do not like that and I do not like the way they write their tickets like "customer claims" My letter would state..."particles are noticed floating in the coolant tank with an unusual brown color mix" and have a friend mechanic sign with me!

Is Mini so special that it is the only car in the world with a brown coolant issue (Like Dodge neons and pt cruisers with the basically same block?)

Since I have a year + left on my warranty, Mini and the dealer will be getting a certified letter from me just in case there is cooling system system trouble down the road (pun)

I also have a Honda Element where there was a class action windshield cracking suit (sound familiar) against (I did not need to join) HONDA JUST LOST pencil test and all

I want that crud out of my cooling system...from what I hear...it comes back too!

 

Brown coolant is not normal. this could be caused by oil in the coolant, some type of material entering the cooling system or other material getting dislodged, or wearing off and getting into the cooling system causing it to become brown, be it waterpump bearings, fluids, leaking gaskets, rusty iron block sediments, etc. I don't want to get you guys (and myself!?!!) totally alarmed but, I just don't think that brown coolant is normal.

I've noticed that our W11 (Cooper S Pentagon Brazil built unit) engines use an oil cooler (heat exchanger) right under the oil filter. Coolant lines go into and out of this and help 'cool' the oil and filter assembly. I'm not sure if the heat exchanger on our W11 engine is sealed or if the coolant flows past gaskets that can be replaced (see illustration below). Someone surely can elaborate on this. Could this be a source of the brown coolant?

Porsche 944 engines are known for 'mixing' and creating milkshakes. This is when the oil / cooler seals give up the ghost and mix the two fluids. The 944 oil cooler is different because there is a seperate cover that bolts to the side of the block and the cooler is surrounded in coolant inside this as opposed to ours style being exposed to air and the coolant running inside of it. There is a huge Porsche factory documented proceedure for cleaning blocks that had mixing of oil and coolant, which in the case of a 944 engine, if the coolant gets into the oil... you're up for replacing the rod bearings. At the least, if the oil is getting into the coolant you still need to determine the location of the loss of oil, flush the block out and start over.

We should find out what other engines use our style and design of oil cooler unit and investigate further. Hopefully, it is not this and just rusty iron block sediment.

MINI Cooper S W11 'Heat Exchanger'
Heat Exchanger is #5 (where coolant flows into the section of pipe showing at the upper left).

 

Mini claims this brown coolant condition is caused by an interaction between their coolant and the iron block after it is manufactured... People do not realize that even after your warranty has expired, if there is a "latent defect"...the manufacturer is still on the hook. There have been MANY complaints on this forum about this issue dating back to the 02's and it is still happening (some on VERY new vehicles). Wonder why the Neons don't get this problem. (same basic block)...Now I am wondering about the coolant that BMW/MINI uses...wonder if that could be a problem (They have changed the formula 2 times that I know of)...After the warranty is over, I am switching to Prestone Silica free (any car they claim) stuff.

There is NO oil in my coolant tank (The oil level remains constant w/ no loss unless it is miniscule), the compression is good and nothing else appears to be leaking into it nor am I losing coolant (I will use a turkey baster and remove little coolant) before I go in to have it analyzed)....If they do not act...I will put them on notice in writing since I have watched their activities on a friend's 05 that has had 3 cracked windshields in a year, and the dealer claims they are rock hits! (as do most)...(Pencil test my ****...that's what Honda tried and lost the class action on)

Funny, the cracks all start in exactly the same place....begin vertically and then go horizontal. I have taken Pics for her just in case, each time. She finally put in an aftermarket PPG windshield and so far no problems!

On other problems Mini is wonderful...Had 2 leds go out on my HK head unit and they simply replaced it (That little unit is a $1400 part less a core chg for the old one...and I know they get the $$ back from mini)....squeak in the Passanger side window...they replaced the regulator....Bad battery they replaced it (That is unusual)....Now I have a siezed power steering fan so it is going back in....they have 9 in stock so they must see this often "Quote from the parts manager" (Yes, the fan has the cheapo plastic screen and shows no damage from any impact)

BTW: 20,000 mi on my 04 (Dec 03 build date)

 

I had milky coolant for awhile. The dealer flushed the system 4 times. Good to go now. Car has 63K on the clock.

 

I don't have milky coolant or oil, so I don't think I have oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. However, I have never seen brown coolant before when the coolant was still good. My SA said it was normal (they all do that) but I really think it is as simple as the coolant breaking down with O2 exposure.
Drain, flush and fill should take care of it.

 

Interesting...that would mean that the "pressurized system" is not airtight since the coolant cap only comes off uccasionally (NOW more frequently) when checking coolant level.

Of course, since the tank is NOT clear, checking by sight is not so easy...you need a high powered flashlight to look throught the tank...Again...not too smart...They could even have put a sight tube on it like on an OCC...assuming that there is no translucent material that could stand up to the pressure of the colling system....!<doubtful>. Stopped buying Bimmers after my 325 and this just may be my last mini...too many oddball quirks and not enough dealers...driving 250 mi round trip for service (Over Donner pass in winter) is not fun...but the little bugger is a blast and I would miss it. However, If it was my daily driver...it would be gone by now!

 

it's the new world friendly coolant... it's normal . add some green dye .

 

Thank you Herbie, but the question still bugging me is why ONLY in the MINI????

Even my Bimmer Mechanic who works on old and new Bimmers said WTF is that stuff! His opinion is that there is a problem...been using him for upteen yrs and he knows his stuff. He knows the mini block is basically a neon and said he asked another mechanic that does those ....and his reply was the same!

 

The brown milky substance is not normal. The techs corrective action is to flush as many times as it takes to get rid of it. Thats what I was told. I also remember there being a TSB on it. But, I really don't have time to find it. Maybe one of the Mini techs that frequent the board can help you out. FWIW, my BMW doesn't do this and I am one of the few around here that has had it so it isn't common practice. I also wouldn't leave it in there and run it like it is normal. P.S. - I just surfed the neon forum and have had no luck in coming up with a brown milky substance in the coolant.

 

so what's causing it if not a head gasket? it just appears? looks like i'm flushing mine come spring then.

 

I will do it myself if I get no satisfaction from Mini...sure wish I had the TSB to go in with! As mentioned I have one of those weaker air purging tools that works off my compressor. It is only for purging the air...not evacuating the coolant. If need be, I will keep draining and refilling with reverse osmosis water til it comes out clean..then I will use the coolant and figure out how to get a 50/50 mix with the R/O water in the block...obviously a higher concentration to dilute it will be needed but how much is the question? This will take hours! + the drivce of 250 miles round trip to have the PS fan replaced.....sure hope they do a flush while I am there!

I am going in on the 30th of Nov to have a Siezed PS fan repaired and will talk to them then and report backeither way...another 04 owner here in reno is going through the same thing...Well windshields and brown coolant..stonewalling from Mini...Bad combo....

BTW: the service bulletin that was posted here was service measure 17 201 03
Both miniusa and the dealer say they never heard of it and it was posted by a mini tech here on Nam who also said "even though the brown is not harmful...just call us here at mini USA and we will help you get it resolved at your dealer " (not verbatim) Well in the past few weeks my 20k mile MCS (2004) has dropped from -35degrees (BMW spec) to -20 protection levels according to my Hygrometer...not a happy camper with this 4 yr coolant chg stuff! Sure wish my independant Bimmer tech has a flush machine...but he said he has never needed one! He does not like working on the Mini but does it since we go way back (he put the 15% pulley on for me) I still do the minor stuff myself.
Had thought about one of those Prestone flush kits but you have to cut the heater hose to install the tee...No thanks

 

Also have a 04 and the other day when changing my oil I just happened to note the odd brown color to the coolant. Didn't know this was a problem, but I guess will take it in to be looked at. Car run's great up have repeated engine service light come on with code 2096. Can't find out what this code is ,but suspect has something to do with O-2 sensor.

 

Like I said...I had mine flushed with no issues (warranty). Brown coolant....we'll take care of that...we already know about the issue was the comment from the techs when I dropped the car off. Plus, it helps to know almost everyone in the dealership.

 

Car run's great up have repeated engine service light come on with code 2096. Can't find out what this code is ,but suspect has something to do with O-2 sensor.[/quote]

According to Bentley:
P2096="Post Catalyst fuel trim system too lean (bank 1)"

Sounds like you were right on it (I think!)

 

According to Bentley:
P2096=&quot;Post Catalyst fuel trim system too lean (bank 1)&quot;

Sounds like you were right on it (I think!)[/quote]

 

i love the way they ran the power steering lines right next to the header!! no heat there at least.

 

And that's assuming.... the coolant still is doing its brown antifreeze/cooling protection It was down to 20 this am and dropping into the teens at night starting Sun.

Roadside service at 7000 ft?...do not think thre are cell towers all the way either!

We now have uncertain weather moving into the Sierra...snow possibly heavy, by Sunday and the nice but cold sunny forcast for my trip over Donner Pass on Fri for service is now "UNKNOWN" (Dinner for 52....)...wonder if the Mini would survive a High Sierra snowstorm to get to the dealer in Sacramento.....Think it will stay in the Garage if there is even a hint of snow....You wouldn't believe how fast it comes down at 7000+ ft!!

 

Other then the discoloration are there any documented problems from this? Has anyone had a problem as a direct result of the this?

 

I have had brown coolant since late 2002. It was flushed and refilled in November 02 and the brown came back within a few months. No problems so far.

 

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Well, the plot thickens...After MiniUSA and my dealer said there was no such measure as service measure 17 201 03...One of our NAM members was kind enough to send me a copy of a service ticket (for the coolant issue) with that number stated as cause for warranty flushing and filling....(from 2004)

I am bringing a copy of that invoice with me on fri to the dealer(with his permission). I have also informed Miniusa that I have this invoice and they are now looking into how it appears to have vanished!

Assuming the weather is not too bad to drive to Sacramento, I will inform the group how I fare!

 

I have just heard back from miniusa redarding the Service Measure 17 201 03...brown coolant flush .

both the dealer (Neillo) and Miniusa say it never existed, even though I am looking at an invoice that clearly shows it....NICE approach...

MINIDIVISION...hope you are reading this...More BS from Mini! (Like the windshield issue)

Needless to say, no more Minis for me (even though the car is fun) I am sure I can find another brand of weekend car with a dealership that is closer than 125 miles away. The dealer wants $119 to flush the system...NO WAY....I can do it myself thank you. OR, Big O will do it for $55 using my own coolant.

The car is just a little too quirkey for me, even though the fun factor is there...the reliability factor is NOT!

 

If it's any help, I looked at the online TSB database and found this:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/BMW/11570...06/170106.html

which is a general set of instructions for improving the coolant used in all BMW models (assuming this includes MINIs)

The list of TSBs I looked at was here:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/BMW/index-post.html

 

Thanks...I just did it myself!

Found someone with a Uview Vacufill machine to borrow (about $650 on the net) .....very safe since it does not use a motor, and is pressure adjustable, Not dangerous like the big machines that force out the old stuff by pushing in new stuff..

It evacs the old coolant (using Vacuum on a HOT SYSTEM)) without removing the lower hose and then puts the new stuff in thru the overflow tank on the S when you flip a lever...Adapts to just about any coolant cap/opening. I own the Uview coolant fill adaptor (model 550000) and it is also great....BUT you have to drain the radiator first before you fill...it also does not evac the system (block)....I have dogs...coolant in any am't is instant death to animals, and having to remove the lower hose is just asking for a coolant splash bath!

I guess it would use the radiator cap on the MC model? Took it to my friend at his Bimmer shop and prodeeded to do it myself with mini coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled water. So instead of a trip ($35) in gas and possible damage going over Donner Pass + the $119 Mini wanted for its flush...it is now nice and clean in there for under $20 worth of coolant and carting the Vacufill over in my Element!! I will now wait til spring to go over the hill and have the PS fan replaced since, I do not use the Mini in winter anyway, except to run around the block a few times once a month for the sake of the seals/battery and tires (flat spots?)

The Bimmer mechanic was horrified...said he had never seen coolant in that bad a shape! MINI can stuff it! The nice thing about the vacufill machine is that you can dump the new coolant tank of whatever was in it before and wash it and the hoses out...thus making sure what you put in is pure mini coolant and distilled h20!

We ran 3 water flushes thru it before refilling (also purges the air so no bleeding is needed)

You should have seen the Crap that came out....water only ran out clear on the 3rd water flush!!! particles and all sorts of BROWN Crud...NOT NORMAL. Oh...it also does a pressure check...was fine.

By my guess, the blocks are not properly cleaned out during manufacturing, thus the crud Still wonder why Neons do not get this condition.....(probably mini finishes the process itself...that, or the coolant type are the only variables I can think of! Again, just a guess! Will see if it returns now...If so I now know what to do!

Mini and its non cooperative dealers (not all of them) should be ashamed...The "we'll be the judge" attitude is pretty poor...just like the windshield issue!

Edit...still wonder where the service bulletin vanished to!