I'm not sure if it's been posted but this info is new to me. Mobil 1 has previously been using pure synthetic base stocks in their synthetic oil. Recently, they sued Castrol (who was using modified dino oil base stocks) saying that the Castrol design cannot be called synthetic. Mobil 1 lost so they decided to downgrade their formula to use some non-synthetic stocks. This means Mobil 1 is now a group III instead of a group IV PAO oil. Amsoil (except XL), Royal Purple, and German Castrol are (to my knowledge) the only group IV PAO oils left. Redline is a group V oil which is the top mark.

I'll be checking around for the German Castrol myself. It's 0w-30 and will say made in Germany on the back. From what I've read, it's thicker than other 30 weights, almost a 40.

 

humm... that sucks. oh well. will try Amsoil or Royal Purple next time
then. thanks for the info.

do you know from which lot number the new "junk" M1 is going to take place?

 

Nope. I really have no clue when the switch occured. After reading on this for a while, I found there's basically two schools of thought here: 1) refining has become much better in the past few years allowing a group III oil to perform as good as a group IV (which is why Mobil 1 changed the formula) and 2) group III is still modified dino oil while group IV and V are true synthetics.

There's some lengthy discussion over at bobistheoilguy.com forums about this Mobil 1 topic. Analysis of the oil tends to say it's mostly group III dino oil with a bit of very high quality group IV, V, and/or VI mixed in.

Also, Mobil 1 seems to thin out fairly quickly. They tend to make oils on the thin side of the scale which is why Mobil 1 5w-30 is not BMW approved and 0w-40 is.

Moral of the story, get 0w-40 for the MINI as it's BMW Longlife approved if you want Mobil 1. German Castrol 0w-30 is available at Pepboys.

 

huh... mine's running 5w30 M1 silver cap and it's fine.

 

So is mine. I'm just passing along some info I've heard and read about.

 

or we think it's fine cause it starts up every time, but maybe it's not fine.

maybe we just dont know wats going on inside those pistons.

maybe its all black inside.

 

So anyone know where to find out what maufacturers are in what group? (Nevermind......looks like it really doesn't matter)


I just read the thread on Mobil 1 and grpIII oils.........OMG !

 

Search around Google. Other car forums are talking about this subject as well. Redline is definitely g5, Motul is also g5, Amsoil except XL series is g4, and German Castrol is g4. Mobil 1 is now g3, Royal Purple is also a g3 (I just found this one out).

Depending on the price of the Castrol, I might be switching to Redline. With Redline, I will have no problems with a 10k mile (or 1 year) drain interval. JSCSpeed sells Redline for really good prices. It comes out to about $100 for 12 quarts.

 

I do not believe that is entirely true. That case was in 1999. Read here http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...s/Mobil_1.aspx and then the individual product sheets for whatever you use.

From the FAQ

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?
Yes, it is.

What's the difference between a fully synthetic and a synthetic blend motor oil?

All motor oils are made up of base oils and additives. In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids. Semi-synthetic oils (also called "blends") usually use a small percentage of non-conventional, high-performance fluids in combination with conventional base oil.

From the 5W-30 product sheet

Mobil 1 5W-30 is a high performance fully synthetic engine oil

Features and Benefits

Mobil 1 5W-30 is made with a proprietary blend of high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an advanced additive system

However ... Mobile Clean 7500 and 5000 ARE synthetic blends

 

Well, first they say all synthetics contain a base amount of "normal" oil, which means Mobil 1 also, then they say they are fully synthetic. Sounds like word play with the "official" definition of synthetic oil.

 

Heck...that would be bad!
I run Mobile 1 and have for a long time! But I have always have done 5000 mi oil changes too!

I use the syn blended stuff in my snowblower and lawnmower...not my Mini!

 

That's exactly the point. The court case ruled that the term "synthetic" is purely a marketing term and doesn't actually mean "non-natural" . They modify and purify regular 'ol dino oil and call it synthetic.

It's still much better than a blend (which is usually only around 10% synthetic) but it is not a group IV or group V man-made synthetic.

 

In the old days Mobil 1 used to cost 3x as much as regular oil (coincidentally what Redline costs now relative to dino oil), but now it's only about 50% more.

Considering how much even regular oil has improved over the last 35 years (from SE to SM) and that most of us don't have turbos, Mobil 1 should do just fine. It's debatable whether Redline@10k mile changes would be any better than Mobil 1@5k, and both would be about the same price.

The previous thread mentioned that the oil the dealer uses is plain U.S. Castrol Syntec.

 

This is not recent at all, it happened in 1999. And Mobil didn't sue Castrol, they filed a complaint with the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.

 

Ah, but they didn't change their formula until recently...right?

 

Not sure, the last time I really did some reading about this was back in 1999. At that point decided to start using Redline oil. However, I have read here on NAM that Mobil1 extended mileage (gold cap) has "more synthetic" than regular Mobil1.

 

This is interesting.

http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900F...cantData1.html

 

I used Sea foam cleaner on an old timer's suggestion through the induction Vacuum line....needed someone else to keep the engine running since it wants to stall out while being fed. it took about 5 miles of driving before the engine stopped stalling when at idle BUT...IT REALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THE MINI RAN (the degredation is slow so you usually do not notice it....until you clean the system up!)....Now all is back to normal AND Much smoother all the way around . I am strictly a Chevron premium user...also had been using Techron cleaner for years...having second thoughts about the techron approach now! Insterestingly the having to start it twice problem has gone away too... I thought it was the colder weather but......

I think Sea Foam was used in WWII airplane engines to clean out the varnish from those engines if I was told correctly! It has been around a long time! Next time I will try the STP COMPLETE (NOT THE REGULAR STUFF) as I had also been told it was better than the techron additive!

ARE WE BEING BS'D BY THE OIL COMPANY'S AGAIN...Funny how Gas went up a dime after the elections and another 3 cents today right before thanksgiving!!! Commodity wise, there is such an overage of gasoline now they cannot sell it fast enough since there is no more storage space....AND WE ARE SUBSIDIZING THE OIL COMPANYS...OBSCENE!

 

is okay. 2006

 

Motul 300V is a group V oil too

 

Yeah, sorry, I left Motul out.

 

I see others corrected the Castrol issue - the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus made a ruling in 1999 that Castrol's use of "synthetic" was reasonable and proper for the hydroisomerized Group III base stock Castrol was using.

The rumor that "Mobil 1 is now a Group III"'s point of origin is the formerly public "Bob Is The Oil Guy" (BITOG) internet forum. There is some truth to it, but it got so out of hand over there they had to shut the forum down to the public. Bob is long gone, and some of the folks running it are *not* oil guys.

The facts are that there is a worldwide shortage of polyalphaolefin (PAO). ExxonMobil, one of the primary manufacturers and users of PAO, began restricting sales to other companies about two years ago, and looking for ways to extend the existing supplies of PAO.

Requirements for extended drain motor oils, transmission fluids, and so on have driven the demand, and the price, up significantly. ExxonMobil's Group III base stocks are what are called "hydroisomerized", which means that the molecules of the feedstock are changed molecularly (in other words, are "synthetic"):

http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...npra_paper.pdf

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Refiningte...AnnaGPaper.pdf

http://www.chevron.com/products/prod.../gf4_faq.shtml

Right behind these processes are new processes that do a gas-to-liquid conversion for Group III base stocks even closer to PAOs in performance:

http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/...nces_AGC21.pdf

which will be coming on line later in the decade.

ExxonMobil released a line in the US, the Extended Performance Mobil 1, that is primarily a Group III base stock with alkylated napthlene and ester blend stocks (these last two are "Group V"). It is designed for a high TBN over an extended period, but is not a "high performance" product. For example, it does not meet the GM Corvette requirement GM4718M.

Outside the US ExxonMobil reports blending some Group III with its PAO base stocks (for example, Japanese market Mobil 1 5W-30).

Group III base stocks do not exhibit the same low temperature performance that PAOs exhibit, even with pour point depressants.

That means that 0W-XX Mobil 1 oils can't be made with Group III base stocks, like the 0W-20, 0W-30, and 0W-40 European Mobil 1.

The 5W-40 Mobil 1 for Diesel Engines, which is Delvac 1, and the 10W-40 and 20W-50 motorcycle oils are PAO or PAO/ester blends.

So, a blanket "Mobil 1 is now a Group III" statement is not accurate.

One line is a Group III base stock. Some other products blend Group III with a PAO base stock. Others remain unchanged.

A well-formulated Group III motor oil may in a particular application outperform a Group V-based motor oil blended with less skill.



.

 

Thanks for those links. I've been trolling through the BITOG forums and came to similar conclusions. I still use M1 0w-20 in the Honda Insight. My main concern with the MINI is the fact that M1 tends to thin out over time. For my last change (a few weeks ago), I went with German Castrol. Only time will tell if the MINI's engine likes it.

 

Mickey_M
Can the M1 diesel be used?
I was told in the past that using oil intended for diesels would not hurt, and had better additives. Is that correct or old myths that need to busted?

 

The 5W-40 Delvac 1, Mobil 1 turbo diesel, sold in North America is not a bad choice if you operate under conditions where an SAE 40 motor oil is usable.

It's on the lighter end of the SAE 40 specification.

It's relatively temperature and shear resistant and has a robust additive package.

The main thing you'd notice in comparing it to the Mobil 1 non-diesel oils in an elemental analysis is relatively high magnesium. This comes from an additive that used to be common in motor oils but has been phased out as we've gone to very long spark plug change intervals. The reason is that it can foul spark plugs, which doesn't have any significance in a diesel engine.

Because a big problem in diesels for motor oils is soot, the Delvac 1/Mobil 1 5W-40 is designed to keep it in suspension. That also provides an extra margin of protection in gasoline engines for extended drain intervals, among other things.

Pricier but also interesting the M4XT 10W-40 motorcycle oil.

It's basically a two-PAO mix with only a small amount VI improver in it, very shear and temperature stable, and high Zinc and Phosphorous levels. Since it doesn't meet the current API SM specs, the anti-wear package looks like premium oils of 5 or 6 years ago, or like the discontinued 0W-30 Mobil 1 Racing motor oil.

The 0W-40 European formula meets all the major European manufacturers' extended drain and performance specs, and is what ExxonMobil is recommending to replace the discontinued 0W-30 Mobil 1 Racing motor oil.

If you live where cold starts are an issue, it might be the best choice.


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