i got a feeling that whoever this supplier is, went through some serious
quality issues.

 

I'll post photos tomorrow when I am done with my little experiment, but I have cut the filter open and my magnet has only found a smudgeon of iron filings (You have to get to the inside of the filter to find the metallic dust). I am trying to figure out how to take a photo of such a tiny amount of metal shavings.

So despite many people's belief that they must change the oil around 1000 miles because there is a storm of metal particles grinding and chewing up all the moving parts of a new engine, the evidence I am finding suggests that this is not true at all and is simply a misconception about what happens inside a modern engine during the break in period.

Instead, I am finding that there is only a very small amount of metal particles were produced during break in, and these particles are successfully trapped by the filter and are unlikely to have caused any damage whatsoever in the 4000 miles this engine has operated since new.

 

Last I heard, ferous metal is only one of the sources of metal during the break-in process. If you are going to make a conclusion based on a magnet, it is probably going to be false. If you really want to get a picture of what is happening during break-in, send the oil off to an analytical laboratory. You will be surprised at what comes back from the analysis. Sample the oil at 2,000 - 3,000 miles and again at 15,000 miles (after changing the oil at the 10,000 mile mark).

 

where did you find this rating system and what is it's basis? No offense, but I would like to see the info 1st hand....
This would be very interesting reading if it from a reputable source.

Thanks,
azminied

 

[quote=caminifan] If you really want to get a picture of what is happening during break-in, send the oil off to an analytical laboratory. quote]

Do you have a lab you would recommend? How about cost of this service?

Thanks
azminied

 

I do understand that there are other metals that are not affected by a magnet, and that a chemical analysis would show a wide range of different metals in the used oil. I certainly do not believe that a kitchen table experiment like I have done is anything but an interesting exercise.

I also found some larger visible pieces of metal that did not react to the magnet on the filter. These were the largest particles observed.

The only conclusion I am making is that there are very few large metallic particles generated and that these particles are effectively trapped by the filter, limiting the amount of abrasive damage. I also know that a paper filter element is typically efficient only for particles larger than 25 microns, so anything smaller would not have been observed.

I still think it is interesting and reassuring to see that there were very few iron particles large enough to be trapped by the filter.

 

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest regarding the proper way to break-in one's car and what the oil change interval should be - it really is up to the individual (kind of analogous to what oil should be used in the engine....). My personal belief is that to maximize engine life, one should flush the oil (and by implication, the metallic (ferous and nonferous) particles that are thrown off during the break-in process) frequently during the break-in period (generally, the first 10,000 miles). All it takes is one little particle to score a bearing and you have a ticking timebomb. The engine may not fail until 75,000 miles, but if the particle had been removed before it got its chance to score a bearing, the engine might have lasted until 150,000 - 200,000 miles.

 

One to consider is Analytical Testing Services, Inc. (wetestit.com). I am not affiliated with ATS in any way whatsoever. Check them out and decide for yourself. If you Google egine oil analytical laboratories, you will get north of 4,000,000 hits, so there are a lot of options out there. Hope this helps.

 

I use Blackstone and have no complaints:

blackstonelaboratories.com/

Started with them as people from various BMW forums began using them a ways back to check the health of their S54 motors in the M3s and M Coupes so I've seen many references to them for years.

 

Blackstone is also a good lab. There are a number of labs that do oil analysis.

 

I agree, especially with the "modern engine" reference. Engines today are made to much closer tolerances than those of my youth. It was prudent in those days to drain the "break in" oil after 500 miles, and I recall significant metallics in those drainings.

 

Picked up my car Saturday and the Service guy said when I asked if they would have any problem with me bringing my own oil that the oil they use is a special blend made to Mini’s specifications, implying it was not the same as the over the counter Castrol. Anyone know if that rings true?

 

Perhaps they could provide you with written proof of the implication that MINI Castrol is a spcial blend? Before I believe even a service technician's intimation, I want to see an official statement from either Castrol or MINI.

 

 

Earlier in this thread someone mentined 'breakin period'. Is this the 1500 miles during which I was not to go full throttle or exceed 4500 RPM ? Or might this person have meant longer ?

The reason I ask is that I'm not comfortable running the full 10k miles till my first service, regardless of the supposedly full synth Castrol in there. I was thinking of changing at around 2000 or 2500 miles. Parts guy at the local Mini dealer tells me what they sell is the same as the BMW synth Castrol (that I remember using in an M3 and it cost around $8.50/qt from a BMW stealer). Parts guy said go 5w30 and if I want it's ok to get Castrol from the autoparts stores as long as I get the FULL SYNTHETIC variant.

I'm a proponent of Mobil One and I suppose it could be argued that I could put in Mobil One 5w30 full synthetic anyway. After my 2k-2500 change, I'll probably do it again about 7500, then let them freebie me at 10k. After that I'll probably DIY at 15000, 25000, etc. if my understanding that they do the freebies at 20k,30k,etc is correct.

I would prefer to run Mobil One in my 911, but at 10.5 qts/oil change it's cost prohibitive, so I use dino oil and change every 2500-3k miles...

 

oh man, I was wandering through this thread and your post caused a horrible deja vu. I had one of those 'bad bearing' S54 engines. They pulled out fried bearings and I wasn't happy with new bearings, I wanted some proof that there was no starvation damage to the main bearing or crank, but despite having given other customers brand new engines, I was told to take a hike. BMW's abysmal 'customer service' chased me right into a Porsche showroom..

Photos I posted on roadfly elicited a 'I'd have recommended a new engine, you should have come to our dealership for the bearing recall service' response from a BMW tech. The service writer at my dealership was a rat-b*stard who had it in for me because he heard me talking to a friend about 'track events' and I believe this was one case where the 'power of the internet' worked against me. I was pretty vocal about BMW's 'service'.

 

And yet you bought a MINI BMW - I know we did too, hope springs eternal I guess

Not to hijack the thread but my friend had his M3 bearings spin and engine blow and they even tried to blame it on him. Long story short it was lucky it was an SMG as it was supposed to prevent it revving that high and it failed. It was not pleasant and the car was at the dealer a long time, they even left it parked outside most of the time and the paint was damaged, interior filthy. Later BMW was forced to admit the defect in the engines and production tolerances largely due to public pressure from owners...

So how is Porsche as a whole? Start a new thread comparing them

 

<hijack>
'twas like night and day comparing the way I was treated at the Porsche dealer compared to the BMW dealer, albeit the fact that I bought an $80k C4S as compared to a stripped E46 M3 probably had something to do with it. I would damage the C4S undertray having off-track excursions and the Porsche tech offered to replace it under warranty. Of course I said 'no, I broke it, I fix it'.... I would love to have kept that car, but it was a one-year jaunt into the world of what to me is near-exotic. Best car ownership experience I've ever had; couldn't afford to keep it. I couldn't get Porsche out of my blood so I found a cherry one-owner SC with 58k miles on it. I will say I'm amazed how much fun and how much enjoyment I'm getting from a Cooper with the Sport Suspension Plus. Both my cars now combined have less horsepower than either the E46 M3 or the C4S, but they're both light, FUN, and affordable. I guess that's all that matters.
</hijack>

 

Good idea to do first oil change at 2000-2500 miles (I did mine @ 2200). I swear by Redline but the type of oil has been beat to death. I have no problem going 10K miles between changes with Redline. Mobil 1 is good and cost less $$$. If your going to change every 5 K miles you'll be fine. Of course you know that the oem oil filter is the best way to go even when DIY. For the free 10K service, I told them to use my oil and I gave them 5 qts. Redline. They had no problem with that. As a matter of fact the SA said that is the oil he uses in his personal cars. Regardless of brand of oil used, when DYI keep receipts for oil & filter and write down date & miles when changed. That way you can document for warranty reasons.