Referencing old thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...212#post688212

Mine did the exact same thing yesterday. It just stopped working, no warning lights, no nothing, no problems. I was even on my way to get some under warranty body work done on my Mini at the dealers... I got towed the last 500 yards. (Thank god I'd actually gotten off the highway)

Unfortunately, even though I've been taking the car in for the regular maintenence, my transmission has 74,000 miles on it, so it's no longer under warranty. It's gonna cost me over 7 grand to replace it.

I love my mini. But all my service associate can tell me at this point is:
"There's metal filings in the transmission fluid, so it looks like a mechanical failure" They won't even do the warranty work, since the car can't be moved down to the body shop.

The only conclusions I can draw from that is:
Mini transmissions spontaneously fail every 3 years.
I made a poor decision when I bought it 3 years ago.
It would be a poor decision to replace the transmission.
It would be a poor decision to buy a new mini.
Minis are quite simply, not reliable cars and my 7000 would be better spent on a car that can last more than 3 years.

Please, someone....
I'm trying desperately to come up with a reason, any reason, to like my car again. Heck, even hearing that's I'm a moron and I totally hosed it myself would make me feel better... at least then I have a chance of making a replacement last a little longer. Please, can anyone help? Every time someone else tells me "Transmissions don't just implode that soon" I get a little more depressed

 

Very sorry to hear this ... but just to clarify it is *not* "the exact same thing" as the referenced thread. The other fault is a new MCS 6 speed transmission and a drive shaft fell out!

Your failure is on (presumably) the MC CVT transmission and is obviously not new (74K miles is a lot more than 1500). And from your description a drive shaft did not fall out, because you refer to metal in the transmission fluid (suggesting maybe a failed CVT belt?)



I don't know of any other CVTs that have failed like this. But I think you are probably one of the highest mileage CVT owners. Hopefully this is not what other CVTs will be doing as they also reach high mileage.


I think $7K is a ludicrously high amount of money to be charged to repair a 74K miles car.
I cannot believe that is a realistic price either! I priced swapping a pre-'05 (manual) transmission for an '05 and it was under $4K (I did not do it). The MC CVT transmission can't be $3K more expensive than the manual - they only charge $1300 extra on a new car.


Do you trust your dealership? Maybe worth finding out about a replacement transmission at another dealership. What you really need is a refurbished one, and a good non-MINI garage charging sensible labor rates to do the exchange.

 

If it makes you feel better, my Chevy transmission disintegrated at 41,000 miles, 2000 miles from home. However, $2300 and I was on my way again. So, 74000 is ok, $7000 is not.

 

Ah.. I apologize for the needless confusion then. The part that jumped out at me from the previous post was the complete lack of any warning about impending failure.

My lack of mechanical knowledge, combined with the complete lack of details on what exactly happened from the dealer, caused me to make the connection. On the forums is the first time I've heard mention of a reason for the metal shavings in the fluid. "Mechanical Failure" is a little too vague for me to figure out what's going on.

As for the price tag, that includes the parts and labor. I believe the cost is approx. $4500 for a remanufactured transmission. The extra cost comes from replacing the oil, some other part, and quite a lot of labor. I did have the presence of mind to get a copy of the cost breakdown from the dealer, but I left it at work, so I don't have the numbers off the top of my head.

Please, I would love to hear about anyone at all who has firsthand experience with a CVT that's got more than 50,000 miles on it.

.... and to add insult to injury, I had just had the car in for a service check up about a month ago.

 

Note to self: Sell Mini before warranty period ends.

 

Is the CVT transmission "sealed for life"?

If it is, that means no need to top up fluids or do any maintenance on the transmission during its life.
Then apparently, "life" is defined (on your car anyway) as 74K miles. You might get some quite interesting press if you make contact with some car companies and present them with this info.

 

The CVT Transmission is one of the "sealed" components. That is apparently the reason for the high price tag. They have to remove the transmission and ship to BMW to be repaired, then they replace mine with a remanufactured one. That said, I don't think the requires 'no maintenance'. Part of the service checkups is to check the fluid level and replace it.

I've posted a thread in the Mini Owner's Lounge as well, and someone mentioned something I hadn't considered before: My car was among those recalled in 2002 for, I believe, the wrong transmission fluid. Between the time I drove my car off the lot to the time I could get the recall serviced, I had already taken 2 long road trips and had several thousand miles on the transmission. Could my experience be the result of this original error?

 

I've thought about this many times. Mostly because Mini/BMW parts are so expensive.

 

Sealed for Life is a bunch of marketing spin.

When I was researching whether to get a CVT MINI or wait for the MCSa, one of the things that I looked into was the maintenance cycle for the CVT. There is a 36,000 miles maintenance procedure for the CVT which involves draining the fluid and replacing with new fluid. Personally, I would drain the fluid at 3,000 miles and then thereafter at 15,000 mile intervals. The CVT is basically a drain and refill fluid replacement procedure (no torque converter that needs to get the fluid in it replaced), so if you are into maintaining your car yourself, it is a relatively simple procedure.

 

i've seen this in a CVT that if memory serves it only had about 50K. however i don't know if the recal for the fluid replacement applied to that car.
also although it is possible to change the fluid on your own it mite be a bit messy unless you have one of those pump oil suckers the griots sells. becasue to put the fluid back in you have to put it in a fill hole that is on the front of the transission case. which would make it tricky to pour the fluid in.

 

Well, I can't say that's reassuring.. but at least it's another data point over the 50,000 mile mark.

I don't suppose anyone knows or has an automatic mini that's working fine after 50,000 miles.....that's what I really want to hear about.

 

You don't indicate where you are. There may be some good Mini shops that could be of help with this problem. Between salvage yards and a good mechanic, you might cut the cost considerably. There are Minis that have been in wrecks that you might be able to acquire parts from, and swapping a component like the trans is sometimes easier than repairing an existing unit, which takes special skills and tools.

 

I live just south of D.C... and earlier this week, I did check up with some salvage yards.. no luck for the transmission, but I honestly wasn't expecting to find any.

Anyhow, after a lot of thought, I have decided to have my car repaired and keep with it for a while longer. This is my first serious problem, so I'll take a chance that Baby just needs a transplant. But I have learned a very important lesson from this: When I buy my next car, maintenance cost will have to be a consideration. I can't afford to drain my bank account to zero to fix my car. I'm simply not rich enough to own a mini, I guess. I'll always love the cars though.

Barring any other unforeseen difficulties, I'll probably just be posting again once I hit 100,000 miles.

 

If you are going to repair it think about calling around, I know I would. Shop to shop, dealer to dealer, every place can vary in price. I have had dealers range in hourly labor quite a bit, and additionally some will give a discount on parts. Considering that you are past warranty you might even do best taking the car to a trustworthy independant shop.

Good luck with it all

 

Consider ordering parts from Classic MINI, to save 20%, the discount they give NAM members. I agree with shopping around and getting quotes from both MINI dealerships and high-end foreign shops. Sorry about your issues. Best of luck getting your Baby fixed. :smile:

 

Actually, I did shop around a bit before I settled on repair at my original dealer. Both the unaffiliated places and the dealers I called independently quoted me the same 7 grand figure.

I went ahead and had it done at my original dealer, as they were eventually able to offer me a fairly significant discount.

 

I'm rebuilding a wrecked '02 with CVT. Check my previous posting about questions that most of you couldn't answer because they're too off-the-wall. Anyway, after rebuilding this baby it wouldn't upshift (I know, it's a CTV, but they still have a shift mechanism). After researching everything I could, I took it in to Mini of ST. Louis. After OBD2 diagnositcs, they told me it was some type of short in the transmission, and they have no service or rebuild capability or training. The technician's never even opened one up. As somebody else said, they just send them back and install a remanufactured. A reman is $4400. I'm not positive but i think they quoted labor at 11 hours, or $1100 here in St. Louis. Misc may add another couple hundered. That said, I went in search of a used one from salvage yards. I only found 3 across the country and canada that didnt have damage. cheapest was $2500. it was also only 4000 miles from an '04, not flood damaged. So i've removed the cradle, disconnected the suspension and rack/pinion?EHV, yanked the axles, disconnected the exhaust, supported the engine on a floor jack and the CVT on another floor jack, raised it all 4" to remove the motor/tranny mounts, then lowered it all 6" to disconnect the starter and tranny and slide the tranny off the LH side. My buddy and I did it in 4 hours, but I had experience and there was no front end on the car at the time. Wednesday my replacement arrives and this weekend I reinstall and hope for the best.

To be sure about the dealers diagnosis, I checked all the wiring I was able to using the Bentley repair manual wiring diagrams. After removal of tehe tranny last weekend, we separated it into 2 halves and inspected the inside. Realy spiffy. Someday I'll post photos. The cones for the belt were mirror finish. Very intricate needle bearings. There's a filter inside the pan just like any other old tranny. But BMW never replaces it. They drain fluid thru the bottom plug, but refill is way harder than you guys have noted. There are about 3 other ports/plugs on the tranny sides, but the other front bottom one is the filler. You need an adapter and "squirt gun" to push the fluid up into the tranny. You have no idea how much you're adding so you guess until you think you have about 4.5 qts in there. Then you disconnect the adapter and excess spills out for a while. Then you plug it, and go thru a very elaborate cycle of running the car on jack stands, shifting thru all the gears for a predetermined time length. Messy, time-consumming, and a bit mysterious. And it's supposed to be done every 30,000 miles.

When we ripped inot it, we did find 2 solenoids inside the tranny and one sensor of some type. One soleniod had 2 wires at the plug and it reacted to 12 volts applied, presumably working correctly. The other had 4 wires entering it and no combination of 12 volts and ground made it do anything. That may not make it bad, who knows?? And I dont know how to check the sensor (normally open or closed??). Anyway, all three are accessible thru the drain pan and appear servicable to me, if Mini only provided tech pubs, training, or replacement parts. So they're the ones screwing us...it was made servicable. When I checked around, no tranny place in St. Louis would repair one because none had parts or manuals available.

So that's my data dump. If anyone in the area needs their CVT replaced, look me up. I may be the first to do one in a house garage! Also I have parts for one if anyone can use them, and I can get anyone another low miles tranny for $2600 if they should need one. Cheers.

 

Have you read MINI Complete?

Lots of CVT info in there; in Hydraulic Control Valves it lists:
Primary valve, Secondary valve, Exhaust secondary valve, PWM solenoid secondary valve, Cooler flow valve, Clutch valve, Exhaust valve clutch pressure, Constant pressure valve, Supply valve, PWM solenoid clutch valve, Reverse inhibitor valve, Manual valve

Other quotes:

The Ratio control motor, connected to main harness via a circular connector, controls the hydraulic control unit to adjust the primary pulley to the appropriate position.

Gearbox interface unit allows communication between CVT and EMS 2000 - convert inputs from selector lever switches (and steering wheel switches if fitted) to CAN for EMS 2000; drive LEDs to display transmission mode; convert CAN from EMS 2000 to electrical signals to drive ratio control motor, clutch and secondary pressure solenoids.

Also full description of functionality - too much to copy here.

(I have the Bentley too, but never bother with it)
(Haynes has nothing on auto transmissions)

 

Also, under faults:

Transmission stays in lowest ratio, pulls away as normal but engine rapidly reaches 6000rpm at 20mph:
- sticking primary valve
- ratio control motor fault
- ratio control motor wiring
- transmission malfunction

 

wow, great stuff. I coulda used that 2 weeks ago. where do i get a MINI complete? I think everything you mentioned there is repairable from the pan. it bites that Mini doesnt help, and i'm sure you cant buy any replacement parts. the ones i looked at inside had no manufacturer numbers/names and i'm sure Mini wouldnt stock and sell them. even though Mini complete talks about those things, I wonder if they give any info to troubleshoot, test, or diagnose if they work correctly?

 

MINI websites for information:

http://www.minitis.com/
You can pay $25 for a one day subscription and you then have access to all the same stuff as the dealerships; I tried it some years ago and it is hard work to navigate.

Then follow the "purchase materials" link; that's where you used to be able to order MINI Complete but I don't see it there any more. Mind, it was $100!

If you go into MINITIS you can download the MINI Complete sections as .PDF files ... but the info in MINI Complete is intended for MINI tech training as a grounding, and not as a repair guide.

 

Keep checking, there is a salvage "net" that can expand your search to the entire country. A really good shop can convert you to a manual tranny, but they had better be a really good shop. You can find another tranny, but I would get away from the CVT, BUT maybe with the "brains" in the motor, you might not be able to change over.

 

Do you think these two factors, a filter that NEVER gets changed and fluid levels that has "hit and miss" fill characteristics, could be contribututing to the bad CVT tranny syndrome? I guess there is an auto trans dipstick somewhere in this tranny, or NO? I am not an engineer, just wondering out loud...

 

My '05 MCSa (not the CVT) has NO dipstick. I asked the service advisor about it and he said they were sealed -- no reason to check the fluid level. He mentioned something about a procedure that they use to check it involving running the car on the lift and monitoring the tranny temp,etc like boog was mentioning earlier in the thread.

 

As I said I am NO engineer, BUT, they made it near impossible for a service tech to check the fluid level and the manufacturer seals the trans. with the fluid inside and BMW never changes the filters. Sound like a good plan for disaster if the auto-filler is off one day, the factory worker is having a "bad hair" day or they're in the middle of labor negotiations or something.

You know I have a sneaking suspician that a whole lot of the initial quality problems may have been labor related. BMW buys out British Car Co., alienates the labor force during the change in mgt. and the production line, strong labor Union, and voila, sabotage on the assembly line that took a few seasons to straighten out. Heck, right there on the line they can see it. They're left-hand drive cars, "send the junk to the Americans."