Hi guys,

About this thermostat, it claims it reduce temperature thus it maintains peak HP/tq even when driven hard. Now, since this is only a $44.95 part, how would someone justify spending $1k+ for a water/air cooler or larger intercooler for that matter. Thanks!

 

It may open earlier, but unless the t-stat is the limiting factor in cooling the engine (probably not), it won't 'maintain peak HP/torque'.

An intercooler lowers the intake charge temp, which allows greater timing advance without detonation. I believe intake temp is a far greater factor in this regard than engine temp, even if the t-stat WERE able to maintain a 180deg temp for the engine/coolant.

 

Here's some numbers, just for reference, off M7's site:

 

This has been a debate for years with the tuning crowd. The detractors say that all the thermostat does is open flow to the water jacket sooner and the engine temperature will eventually catch up, making no difference. Although this is a good point, I believe that the effectiveness of a cooler thermostat comes down to how efficient the MINI’s cooling system is in the first place. If the cooling system is marginal to the point that it can only maintain a constant temperature, then the cooler thermostat will work very well because the MINI’s system will maintain the temperature at a constant 180 degrees. On the other hand, the cooling system may not be efficient enough to cool down to 180 degrees if the thermostat doesn’t open until it is at 220 degrees.

 

Hi there....

All the numbers generated in the graph, was either done with a data logger
or meassured with a Dwyer IR thermometer.

The messured numbers are very much an indication of the cooling capabilities of our thermostat, the other very important aspect is the underhood temps which
are very high with the OE thermostat are kept in check with ours (much lower).

For someone doing track day events this will not only keep the coolant temps low, but it will also take the oil temperaturs down a notch.

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

Hi Peter,

It's great to see a vendor chime in on their product.

The thing is I'm seriously thinking about purchasing this thermostat, however, I would like to know if there are any disadvantages. My car is only 4 months old with 5000 miles and I don't want this mod to shorten my engine life. Bottom line, is this a good mod for daily city/some fwy driving? I mostly do a lot of city driving where there is a lot of stop & go and does that mean my engine won't be operating at the full warmed up temp? Thanks!

 

I read someplace that oftentimes manufacturers prevent certain combustion problems (like knock) by running higher temperatures; it makes it so that when the spark happens, things are so hot that very little of the fuel is left over to combust at the wrong time. Lowering the temp in that case seems like it might cause problems. Not sure if that applies in the case of the Mini, but that's the only drawback I could see.

 

Not sure what it would do to the MINI, but you could always try removing the theromstat altogether.

This has always helped with vapor-lock on older muscle cars.

If the MINI system is designed well enough, and the radiator is of a high enough capacity, running without the thermostat should provide even better temps.

so why 180, why not 160 or 170?

Will the 180 thermostat work on a standard MC?

Steve
--
1969 Chevy Nova SS 396 :smile:

 

I know that removing the thermostat altogether is not a good idea with the VWs - something about a sensor computer loop.

 

That makes sense. All the cars I have removed the thermostat in don't/didn't have computers!!

 

Installing a cooler thermostat is a quick and easy way to get additional horsepower from an engine, but may lead to driveability problems, so you would probably only want to install it on days that you are at the track. To be sold legally there will probably be a disclaimer on the box somewhere that says "for offroad use only". Your computer is looking for the engine to be fully "warmed up" and running at a minimum of 195 degrees farenheit. If it is cooler than that the computer assumes that the engine is still warming up so it stays in cold engine mode. Part of this is a richer fuel mixture. More fuel = slightly more horsepower. Of course your fuel mileage will decrease, your emissions will increase and you may have some driveability problems. I certainly wouldn't reccomend it for everday use but it will give a slight increase in horsepower. As for the other claims, I would take them with a grain of salt. The thermostat only controls minimum temperature, not maximum. On a hot day, with hard running, the cooling system would be struggling to keep the engine temperature in the normal 195 - 220 degree farenheit range even with no thermostat installed.
Hope that helps.

 

The lower temp thermostat will help, as far as it being a 180 tstat, you don't actually have the problems described above "as bad" say if you were running a 160 tstat...then your engine would definitely struggle to catch on that it's actually warmed up. You are right, the computer will think it's running slightly cooler than it should, so that's something to keep in mind...as far as the comment on the "no thermostat", I have seen it done in ECU controlled cars, but only in short incriments like running at a 1/4 mile track, then putting it right back in.

One of the main things an intercooler is good for on a supercharged engine is to allow you to run a smaller pulley more efficiently/safely as well. Like it was mentioned, an intercooler enables less knock retard or "detonation" in the chamber. Imagine if you ran a 19% pulley on a MINI S that had no intercooler...not good, and you would run serious risk of damaging your engine. I plan on getting the 180 tstat because in conjunction with the IC reducing KR, with either the stock or even a smaller pulley, the tstat will help as well in the same department. More KR means your car will pull more timing and hurt your performance, whether your racing, auto-xing, or just driving spirited down the interstate. Hope any of that helps you out in your decision.

Dave.

 

You can't simply remove the thermostat without at least replacing it with a restrictor. Cooling efficiency will go down if the coolant speeds up too much.

I've always been skeptical of low-temp thermostats - especially when marketed for "track use". On the track, the thermostat will usually be wide-open all the time. I don't understand how there will be any change in coolant temps.

 

'a friend of mine' bought one of these and asked how to install it.

No problem says I, envisioning my 79 where the hose and housing are right on top....

Last nite I popped the hood on the 02 just to scope out the task


uh.....OK, just how hard of a job is this? I can't even see where the hoses attach to the engine......

I understand this job requires pulling the intercooler....

and another site says this mod is really only recommended for cars used in hot climates...

anyone...anyone...

 

It is not a hard job and the intercooler does not need to be removed. You will need to remove the air filter housing and a couple of clips that are above the t-stat. There are three bolts holding the t-stat housing, then it slips right out. Bleed and top off the cooling system and that's it.

It does keep the temps down, it may give you a t-stat code below 50*f, and it does help with timing. I believe that coolant temp (read cylinder head temp) is the main factor in ignition timing (after the load maps), not air temp as mentioned earlier.

 

OK - thanks

what about the gasket? I u/s that the part is only sold with the factory therm'.

did you reuse, cut from stock, or find one someplace?

 

You can use the original gasket, it is rubber. I don't know about it not being sold alone.

 

Many thanks...he's asking me to help hm install it....I'm not sure it is a good idea...buttttt

 

Running a car without a thermostat could cause a cold seizure. Because the piston would be heating up and expanding and the cylinder wall would be getting colder and contracting at the same time, making for a fit that could be to tight, especially on a cold day. That's what a thermostat is for. The piston and cylinder need to heat up slowly to operating temputure at the same time.

 

A little update. People have been making general statements about how well this works. I have had mine in for 6months or so and my gas mileage has not gone down. The car runs great and the pinging is a thing of the past. It is able to hold the coolant temp at 180-190* while driving in 90-100* heat. Even at stop lights it usually stays under 200*.

 

no reduction in gas milage. Runs a bit cooler than the stock T-stat, and I'm about 10-15 deg C lower out on the track. Only down side is an occational code when the temp outside is too chilly, but that's not too much of a problem for me.

I do have a bit more power, but I still get some timing retard as well, depending on conditions....

Overall, it's a good mod.

And it's pretty easy, it takes more time to get to the t-stat cover than to actually change the t-stat!

Matt