Stock Problems/Issues Discussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Cooper (R50), Cabrio (R52), and Cooper S (R53) MINIs.

Can NOT seem to bleed clutch or brakes. Neither can the shop. Help?

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Old Aug 27, 2019 | 02:48 PM
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Petkorazzi
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From: Harrisburg, PA
Can NOT seem to bleed clutch or brakes. Neither can the shop. Help?

Hello, everyone. Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Sorry my first post is under such circumstances, but such is life I suppose. Sometimes you just need a leg up.

I've got a 2003 Mini R53 (build date 01/03). Here's an older pic; it's on a set of Clubman spoolers now:

Can NOT seem to bleed clutch or brakes. Neither can the shop. Help?-tgopv46l.jpg

Early this year I went out to my Mini one day to go to work, fired her up, dropped the handbrake, and...the brake light stayed on. Having recently done the brakes all 'round I was confused, but took a quick look around to be safe. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary (brakes looked fine, no visible leaks) except that the brake fluid was low. I topped it off, the light went away, and I chalked it up to just being one of those weird random things.

Another couple of months later the same thing happened. Again I took a look around and didn't see anything odd. I did a few Google searches and checked some of the other potential trouble spots I hadn't thought of (most notably the clutch slave and clutch master) and still didn't notice any leakage. I topped the brake fluid off once more and continued on my way, but this time with a noticeable difference - my brakes weren't as firm as before.

Fast forward another couple of weeks and my brake light came on once more, again with low brake fluid. By this point I started having a noticeable issue with my brakes. Under firm pedal pressure the pedal would feel like it was very slowly "bleeding down" towards the floor (though never actually bottoming out). The transmission was also having some issues shifting into first gear - it would always go in, but it didn't feel particularly happy about it (noticeable increase in required effort). Ok, three times is a pattern and now I have noticeable symptoms; it's time to do something about it.

I ordered a brake master cylinder and a clutch slave cylinder and set up a weekend to pop 'em in with a buddy of mine who's a mechanic at a Volvo main dealer (his tool set and experience being much more comprehensive than mine). We got the items swapped out in less than an hour, bled everything with a vacuum bleeder (including running through the ABS bleed procedure using a scan tool), and thought we'd have the job done before lunch.

Nope. Everything went straight to the floor.

Around this time I noticed some brake fluid leaking near the rear of the car. On further inspection the left rear hard line was leaking due to corrosion. We patched in a new section of bend-your-own line (all correctly flared; no kinks) to bypass the corroded section and bled everything again, checking every square millimeter of line in the car for further leaks. Didn't see any leaks and the pedal seemed rock-hard with the car off, so I fired it up.

Still no visible leaks anywhere, but the initial brake pedal issue returned - mushy feel and slowly bleeding down to the floor.

Meanwhile I had been reading up on the clutch slave cylinder bleeding procedure and determined our method of piston compression wasn't cutting it. I went out to a Home Depot and got some plumber's tape to exactly replicate the "Mod MINI" method of clutch slave bleeding. This time around we seemed to be getting plenty of air out of the clutch slave. We bled and tapped and wiggled and bled some more until we were confident there was no more air left to come out. Got in the car, fired it up, and...well, it would go into the gears with noticeable effort but definitely wasn't right. About 2" of travel at the top of the pedal before encountering any resistance at all, then a somewhat-firm-but-still-kinda-mushy feel to the floor. Clearly the clutch wasn't disengaging fully. At this point my thought was that some air had gotten trapped in the clutch master cylinder. I did some more lurking and came across the "prop the clutch to the floor overnight" method. Since my buddy and I were exhausted at this point (almost 10 hours of bleeding will do that to you!) we wedged some socket extensions in between the pedal and the driver's seat to keep it pressed to the floor and called it a night.

The next day (after sitting about 12 hours or so with the clutch pedal pressed in), I went back to his house and got in the car. The clutch felt great and the transmission would shift into all the gears. Took it on a quick test drive and the clutch issues seemed to be gone, but the brakes were still slowly bleeding down - this time to the floor on occasion. Got it back on the lift, went through the bleeding procedure another 3-4 times, and still didn't have any luck. My mechanic friend suggested it was because he didn't have a pressure bleeder, so I limped the car home and made an appointment at a "Mini specialist" shop to bleed the brakes (I have no Mini dealer in my area). By the time I got home the clutch was not quite right again (tough to get into gears). Left the car sitting overnight, got up in the morning to drive it to the shop, and the clutch was gone - wouldn't go into ANY gear. Out comes the rollback:

Can NOT seem to bleed clutch or brakes. Neither can the shop. Help?-wbodctzl.jpg

The "Mini specialist" shop was...well, let's just say it was an adventure. For brevity's sake (since this is already becoming a wall of text) I'll give the TL;DR version - they said my brake fluid reservoir was cracked so they couldn't pressure bleed the system (though I'd never noticed any leaking from there), so I ordered a replacement myself, dropped it off, and had them install it. They then said they were able to bleed the clutch, the brakes were still slowly bleeding down, however the car was "driveable," and my bill was $400. They recommended I get a new ABS module and quoted me $130 for a used module and another $700 for labor. At this point I told them to go pound sand and went to pick up my car. Brakes go straight to the floor and the clutch is back to the "two inches of free travel, then mushy firmness" status (but it *does* go into gear, albeit unhappily); not the "driveable" status they told me it was. Had it towed again, and that's where we stand now.

So, after $500 and three weeks' time I've gone from "driveable but getting sketchy" to "completely undriveable." Kinda moving in the opposite direction than intended.

I need some help/advice. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or how to proceed. In an attempt to preempt some questions, here's a few things I DO know for sure:

1. The actual clutch (in terms of the friction disc and pressure plate) is fine. It was replaced about 25,000 miles ago, hasn't been driven hard, and has never slipped or otherwise given any indication that the clutch itself is bad. Clutch was 100% driveable prior to this job, and has always been firm (almost to the point of being excessive; I bet my left leg is stronger than my right).
2. No codes of any sort have been tripped in the making of this mechanical mess.
3. All four calipers have been off the car within the last 6 months for pad/rotor/hub replacements; no noticeable issues with any of them at the time.
4. Since that section of brake hard line was replaced, there have been zero noticeable hydraulic leaks anywhere.
5. At no point during the various bleed operations did the reservoir fluid level drop to the point where air could be introduced in the system.
6. One thing I should mention is that there has always been a slight but noticeable hissing sound from the brake pedal area inside the car (similar to a vacuum leak), but ONLY when the pedal was at the top of its travel (i.e., not being pressed at all).

And here's a few direct questions:

1. Was the shop's suggestion that I need a new ABS module valid? If so, how does one go about replacing it with a used unit? I've got a friend who has various BMW computer reading/writing things (he's got a couple of more modern BMWs) so re-coding is doable, as is the "ABS bleed procedure."
2. Is my intuition that there's air in the clutch master cylinder valid? I'm basing it off that whole "first couple of inches have zero pressure" thing. If so, how do you get it out of there?
3. Do I need a pressure bleeder to do this? Is that really a vital component to the process?
4. Is there some vitally important thing I'm missing/forgetting?
5. Am I completely screwed?

I would be eternally grateful for any help you can offer. I know my car's 16 years old now and many people would say "just give up on it and get a new one," but...I don't wanna. I like this one. I want to save it. I'm sorry for the giant wall of text; I just figured any background info I could give could prove helpful.

Thank you.

-Pet
 

Last edited by Petkorazzi; Aug 31, 2019 at 07:42 AM.
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