Stock Problems/Issues Discussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).

Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 8, 2018 | 04:07 PM
  #1  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage

Hello, I am new to this forum. Thank you for your help. I have a 09 Mini S with 103K. About 2 years ago the chain snapped. Towed to dealer and was told low oil get a new engine for 8K installed. The car has been sitting in my garage ever since collecting dust. Fast forward to last weekend. The engine has at least 3.5 quarts of oil in it. It was not low. I pulled the engine and put it on a stand. Removed countless items from the engine. I pulled the head. The steel guide on the head is broke. The plastic guides are broke and sitting in the pan with the chain. I have lots of questions. First things first. That chain did some damage flying around at high velocity. My dip stick was almost impossible to pull out. It was very bent. Should it be straight? Look at this pick. look at that tube toward the bottom of the block. It has a nice chunk missing from it. I assume this is some type of guide for my oil dipstick. Can I just file that down? I see no other use for it? Next and this I do not believe. Visually I do not see any bent valves. Depending on cam rotation they all lay flat at some point in the rotation. Is there a test I need to do? Do I need to remove the valves and check each one?
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-mini-chain-damage.jpg  
Reply
Old Mar 8, 2018 | 05:50 PM
  #2  
AZdsrt's Avatar
AZdsrt
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 57
From: Scottsdale, AZ
You have bent valves for sure. Probably piston damage as well. Time to remove the head and inspect. Chances are pretty good you're looking at a complete rebuild or obtaining another engine..
 
Reply
Old Mar 8, 2018 | 06:05 PM
  #3  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I pulled the head and I do not see any bent valves. How would I know? Bad pistons? How do I tell?
 
Reply
Old Mar 8, 2018 | 07:33 PM
  #4  
Minimonsta22's Avatar
Minimonsta22
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
Bottom line is there are going to be a lot of metal fragments inside that engine. Dipstick tube is no big deal IMO; i would file it down. Also, with all the metal floating around i would want to take a look at the rod bearings and check for any kind of scoring. When you remove the rods bolts, they need to be replaced. i would remove the oil pump and flush it out or replace it completely. You can do the old school, pour water into the valve chamber and check for leak; but the best thing to do is to bring it to a machine shop and have them do a pressure/leak test. It should cost less than 100 dollars. My machine shop will clean, check, and resurface a mini head for me for 125.00. Your pistons should be fine, especially if you didnt bend any valves. Ive seen this countless times and you probably can do this yourself, buy everything you need(including tools) and get it done for way less than 1300 dollars.
 
Reply
Old Mar 9, 2018 | 05:51 AM
  #5  
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
6th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4,339
Likes: 437
From: Philadelphia PA
personally, I would've done a visual check of the valves and perhaps did the cleaning (new chain kit, drop oil pan and cleaned it) before getting the head out.

since this is after the fact, you can still do the cleaning and prepping. you can spry WD40 into the ports and see if they leak. you can also push down on the valve stem and see if it moves freely.

post pix of the head
 
Reply
Old Mar 9, 2018 | 12:21 PM
  #6  
timski's Avatar
timski
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 320
Likes: 7
The damage was to the guide tube for the dip stick. Same thing happened to me. The chain lost tension and started eating into the guide for the dip stick. Took the bottom end of the engine in to get cleaned by the engine shop. They said just file that down to make it smooth. No serious damage. Hopefully the dip stick slides in and out correctly once engine is rebuilt. My car ate piston #3 but the damage we both experienced to the dip stick guide tube was most likely from low oil, tensioner backing out, chain stretching or breaking. I do not see any damage to any other part of the timing components except the chain and the dip stick guide tube so there you go.
 

Last edited by timski; Mar 9, 2018 at 03:00 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 9, 2018 | 05:45 PM
  #7  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I pulled both cams off. I do not see any gaps on the valves. They are all sitting flush. I am going to try the water test tomorrow. The Vanos solenoid is covered in little metal bits. On one cylinder wall I do have a very slight single score I can sort of kind of feel with my finger nail. Is that a big deal? How will I know if I have a bad piston?
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-head.jpg   Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-valve.jpg  
Reply
Old Mar 10, 2018 | 11:51 AM
  #8  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I filled the lobes with water and shot compressed air into the exhaust and air intake manifolds. I am seeing lots of bubbles coming from around the valve heads on the exhaust manifold side. I need to rebuild the head. I pulled one rod bearing cap. The color looks good to me. How do these bearings look. Any chance they spun? When I took the cap off it was soaked in oil. I took the oil pump off and the screen area was filled with plastic bits. What a mess....
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-bearings-with-cap.jpg   Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-bearings.jpg   Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-bearingcap.jpg  
Reply
Old Mar 10, 2018 | 05:49 PM
  #9  
oldbrokenwind's Avatar
oldbrokenwind
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
You have good advice so far. Both vanos and oil pump can be cleaned / reused. I wouldn't gamble on reusing bearings, unless they were recently replaced. For re-assembly, I suggest using this web site --- https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ --- these are the same procedures used by Mini techs, and torque specs are included. The Bentley manual is a good alternative. There's also a good illustrated parts breakdown here --- http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select . For gaskets, shop around for a complete head rebuild set, starting with the NAM vendors. Same for head gasket (usually not included in the head rebuild kits, 'cause two different thicknesses are available) and timing chain replacement parts. Much better pricing when buying kits vs. individual parts. If you plan on tearing into the engine again, consider ARP studs for head, crank, and rods --- they aren't TTY (stretch) bolts and can be re-used.

If you have the rod bearings out, it's pretty simple to remove the entire piston and check for scored walls. But then you need to decide whether to replace or re-use the rings --- if the scoring can be removed. With lotsa miles on the engine, that's a tough decision. Otherwise, it's a rebore and new oversized pistons.

Broken chains are usually catastrophic, and not worth repairing for anything but a daily driver. Price out all the parts and special tools before you buy anything. Try to get labor estimates from machine shops too.
 
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2018 | 05:51 AM
  #10  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
As the crank turns... Scoring is minimal and I actually still seeing the original honing marks. I pulled the pistons out. The bearings are worn. The piston rings look beat and are filthy. Still debating on pulling out the crank to replace the main bearings. Weighing the risk versus reward for that action. Here are some pics for your enjoyment.
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-allbearings.jpg   Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-piston.jpg  
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2018 | 06:01 AM
  #11  
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
6th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4,339
Likes: 437
From: Philadelphia PA
I don't think the crank shaft bearings will be any worse. it is your call to move few more steps and get those bearings out.

When I did a rebuild, I ordered a 2 sets (crank and rod bearings are one set) from UK and they were with shipping close to 350

as mentioned above, i think, run through the numbers/cost and see if it is worth it.
 
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2018 | 11:01 AM
  #12  
oldbrokenwind's Avatar
oldbrokenwind
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
Crank bearings are available in color coded sets --- unique to each crank / block number code pair. Do some research if you decide to replace them. Either the Bentley manual or --- https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ --- will have the charts needed to get the correct colors. Dealer parts guy can also look them up, but you need to furnish the codes. Altho, there are those that have posted that they ignored the charts and just ordered one color, installed and run with no problems. More decisions ---
 
Reply
Old Apr 17, 2018 | 07:01 PM
  #13  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I am back. One thing turned into another and I let the shop rebuilding the head rebuild the entire short block as well. I have some questions. I am now onto the daunting task of bolting everything back on. Any idea the part number of this plastic hose that plugs into the engine. I am thinking something with secondary air. It is brittle and it cracked. Could it be part 11157605186 and or11157565449
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-plastic-hose.jpg  

Last edited by ChesterCountyMotor; Apr 17, 2018 at 07:09 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 17, 2018 | 07:07 PM
  #14  
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
6th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4,339
Likes: 437
From: Philadelphia PA
Originally Posted by ChesterCountyMotor
I am back. One thing turned into another and I let the shop rebuilding the head rebuild the entire short block as well. I have some questions. I am now onto the daunting task of bolting everything back on. Any idea the part number of this plastic hose that plugs into the engine. I am thinking something with secondary air. It is brittle and it cracked.
realoem.com should be saved in your favorites. This is the pcv hose goes from valve cover to the intake manifold.
 
Reply
Old Apr 18, 2018 | 11:49 AM
  #15  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Does anyone recommend a Turbo reseal kit? I have a few leaking seals? The link bellow is a rebuild kit from China on ebay?

https://tinyurl.com/ybglht5x
 
Reply
Old Apr 18, 2018 | 01:33 PM
  #16  
ECSTuning's Avatar
ECSTuning
Platinum Sponsor
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 36,737
Likes: 2,540
From: Wadsworth, Ohio
Originally Posted by ChesterCountyMotor
I am back. One thing turned into another and I let the shop rebuilding the head rebuild the entire short block as well. I have some questions. I am now onto the daunting task of bolting everything back on. Any idea the part number of this plastic hose that plugs into the engine. I am thinking something with secondary air. It is brittle and it cracked. Could it be part 11157605186 and or11157565449
Thats the new part number and the older part number for the same thing. 11157605186 is the newest.

https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/11157605186/


 
__________________

MINI Guru/ MINI Owner Since 2004 | NEW Lifetime Part Replacement | Local Pickup
Milltek | Genuine MINI | Forge Motorsport | NM Engineering | ECS Performance | M7 Speed
Customer Service Hours: 8am-8pm EST|Sales Team Hours: 8am-11pm | SAT 10am-7pm 800.924.5172
Reply
Old Apr 18, 2018 | 01:58 PM
  #17  
thefarside's Avatar
thefarside
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 383
Likes: 72
From: MA
Originally Posted by ChesterCountyMotor
Does anyone recommend a Turbo reseal kit? I have a few leaking seals? The link bellow is a rebuild kit from China on ebay?

https://tinyurl.com/ybglht5x
Given there is 109K on the turbo, it needs, or will need very soon, a new waste gate. Given the questions you've asked here, I suspect rebuilding the turbo may be well beyond your capabilities. I suggest you consider sending it to a shop such as gpop (gpopshop.com) or another turbo specialist that can refurbish the waste gate. If you do elect to do it yourself, get a better quality kit from gpop.
 
Reply
Old Apr 18, 2018 | 03:35 PM
  #18  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I really don't want to rebuild. I am concerned about putting it back together. Just need 2 rubber o rings that are wet appear to be an easy swap
 
Reply
Old Apr 29, 2018 | 05:28 AM
  #19  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Does anyone know where the turbo vacuum tank mounts. I cant seem to find the location. I left it connected to the wire harness. Must be somewhere on the Air intake manifold side.
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-turbovacuumtank.jpg  
Reply
Old Apr 29, 2018 | 05:30 AM
  #20  
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
6th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4,339
Likes: 437
From: Philadelphia PA
Towards the water pump under the intake manifold.

Use realoem.com for location of items, very helpful.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2018 | 10:52 PM
  #21  
EdsNotHere's Avatar
EdsNotHere
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 140
Likes: 19
From: Phoenix, AZ
I would contact Arric at JMTurbo Coopers. I got a complete turbo from him and couldn’t be happier.

http://www.jmturbocoopers.com
 
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2018 | 09:37 AM
  #22  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
The engine is back in. It starts up and the car moves. I have some leaks and issues that I am hammering out one by one. I am getting a grinding clicking from passenger front wheel. Can you please tell me if this axle looks seated all of the way? I think there is a gap that should not be there.
 
Attached Thumbnails Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage-mini-axle.jpeg  
Reply
Old Jun 13, 2018 | 11:26 AM
  #23  
1Marine's Avatar
1Marine
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, Ga
did you get your Mini back on the road?
 
Reply
Old Jun 16, 2018 | 01:42 PM
  #24  
ChesterCountyMotor's Avatar
ChesterCountyMotor
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
The last and final day.. I hope. Fixed all oil and coolant leaks. I can remove the entire front end in 45 minutes now. Drove the car 20 miles or so. The limp light came on without any check engine codes. I did not notice any loss in power. I cleared a few times and it returned. One thing that is interesting. Engine temp is steady at 222. That seems ok. When I turn the car off and remove key the fans come back on for about 5 minutes and shut off. Anyone seen this before?
 
Reply
Old Jun 16, 2018 | 03:37 PM
  #25  
oldbrokenwind's Avatar
oldbrokenwind
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
Engine temp of 220 or so is normal. So is your fan operation with key off. Did you re-seat the axle, or was it installed all the way? Then your vacuum tank --- is it connected properly? This could be your limp mode problem.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:34 AM.