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Another Case of Stupidity for Your Amusement (+associated troubleshooting questions)
Stock Problems/IssuesDiscussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Cooper (R50), Cabrio (R52), and Cooper S (R53) MINIs.
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
Originally Posted by CSP
I wish I could help here, too. How was the plug fouled - oil? fuel?
It was black and burnt. That means fuel, I assume. No oil on threads.
I did take it to O'Reilly's and read the codes today. Not good..
P1688- (check intake manifold connection)
P0107-manifold absolute low input
P1108-map sensor?
P1237-upstream map sensor
P0113-intake air temp high input
P0303-cylinder 3 misfire
P0304-cylinder 4 misfire
P0204-injector circuit open cylinder 4
P1689-map sensor?
P2270-oxygen sensor signal stuck lean bank 1 sensor 2
It seems like there are two main issues here.
1.MAP/Afr measurement/controls
2. Misfire
As for issue #1—I've already replaced the TMAP sensor. Pulling the MAP sensor doesnt change anything.
As for issue #2—ive pulled the spark plugs, wires, and looked at the terminals. Everything seems okay, besides the carbon buildup on the cylinder 3 plug.
It was black and burnt. That means fuel, I assume. No oil on threads.
I did take it to O'Reilly's and read the codes today. Not good..
P1688- (check intake manifold connection)
P0107-manifold absolute low input
P1108-map sensor?
P1237-upstream map sensor
P0113-intake air temp high input
P0303-cylinder 3 misfire
P0304-cylinder 4 misfire
P0204-injector circuit open cylinder 4
P1689-map sensor?
P2270-oxygen sensor signal stuck lean bank 1 sensor 2
It seems like there are two main issues here.
1.MAP/Afr measurement/controls
2. Misfire
As for issue #1—I've already replaced the TMAP sensor. Pulling the MAP sensor doesnt change anything.
As for issue #2—ive pulled the spark plugs, wires, and looked at the terminals. Everything seems okay, besides the carbon buildup on the cylinder 3 plug.
Does this give you guys any other ideas?
Let me just say that I have 0 first hand experience when it comes to fixing Mini based on error codes. Mine have never throw a code.
From all the troubleshooting threads I have read, I see most often that one cannot take the given meaning of the code at face value for successful identification of the root cause(s). You have to take them as hints, and think causality.
The number of codes you have is overwhelming, but it is likely many are result of the cascading effect. This is just my thought. The fact that your #3 plug is fouled might due to a burnt exhaust valve causing low compression, unless it is caused by poor or no ignition.
You kept driving with misfire may had caused a flood of unburnt fuel that overwhelmed the O2 sensors, as well as the catalytic converter. Which in turn might lead to many codes you are seeing.
Unfortunately for you being on the road make systematic troubleshooting very difficult.
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
Originally Posted by -=gRay rAvEn=-
Electronic throttle body module maybe ? It comes attached to new throttle body, not avail separate.
How would the car behave if this was bad? My throttle seems to respond fine, it seems more like a tuning/fuel trimming issue around light throttle.
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
Let me just say that I have 0 first hand experience when it comes to fixing Mini based on error codes. Mine have never throw a code.
From all the troubleshooting threads I have read, I see most often that one cannot take the given meaning of the code at face value for successful identification of the root cause(s). You have to take them as hints, and think causality.
The number of codes you have is overwhelming, but it is likely many are result of the cascading effect. This is just my thought. The fact that your #3 plug is fouled might due to a burnt exhaust valve causing low compression, unless it is caused by poor or no ignition.
You kept driving with misfire may had caused a flood of unburnt fuel that overwhelmed the O2 sensors, as well as the catalytic converter. Which in turn might lead to many codes you are seeing.
Unfortunately for you being on the road make systematic troubleshooting very difficult.
Yeah. I haven't ran it above 4k rpm and I've feathered the throttle the whole time. Just limping it to Seattle, there I'll buy O2 sensors, map sensors, spark plugs, and wires and see if that clears anything up. After that, we might have something to work with, especially if one of those knocks out some of these lower priority codes. Will keep you guys posted! Thanks everyone for the responses
How would the car behave if this was bad? My throttle seems to respond fine, it seems more like a tuning/fuel trimming issue around light throttle.
Yeah. I haven't ran it above 4k rpm and I've feathered the throttle the whole time. Just limping it to Seattle, there I'll buy O2 sensors, map sensors, spark plugs, and wires and see if that clears anything up. After that, we might have something to work with, especially if one of those knocks out some of these lower priority codes. Will keep you guys posted! Thanks everyone for the responses
As you are so far away from home, I suggest you considering contacting Modmini for help. He is in Seattle and may be able to squeeze you into his schedule. I PM'ed you his contact info.
Not seeing first hand all 4 plugs except your report that #3 is badly fouled, I would try to reason why #3 singularly is one that fouled. There is some thing unique about #3 cylinder that cannot explain away with fuel trimming. a/f ration applies to all 4 cylinders in our car (assuming the ECU does not shut down one injector due to fault it detects). I will definitely confirm spark at #3 plug. I will do this visually using the plug removed from #3, or one you plan to put in, carefully grounding it to the chassis and stay clear while cranking the engine. Will take 2 people for this test.
I am pretty sure ECU is incapable of selectively shut down ignition. There is only two wires from ECU to the coilpack as two cylinders share one common switching by the ECU since when one is on ignition, the other is dumping burnt exhaust - or something like that.
As you are so far away from home, I suggest you considering contacting Modmini for help. He is in Seattle and may be able to squeeze you into his schedule.
Not seeing first hand all 4 plugs except your report that #3 is badly fouled, I would try to reason why #3 singularly is one that fouled. There is some thing unique about #3 cylinder that cannot explain away with fuel trimming. a/f ration applies to all 4 cylinders in our car (assuming the ECU does not shut down one due to fault it detects). I will definitely confirm spark at #3 plug. I will do this visually using the plug removed from #3, or one you plan to put in, carefully grounding it to the chassis and stay clear while cranking the engine. Will take 2 people for this test.
Contacting ModMini would probably be a great idea. You just replaced the MAP and I thought o2 sensor as well. Unlikely they would be good and have a catastrophic failure. I think the codes related to that are a result of whatever is happening on cyl #3. Checking for spark is definitely a good start. I'd say there's some kind of vacuum/boost leak due to all the metering issues. But then cyl 3 being fouled is... odd. Too much for me to comprehend without the prior experience.
I didn't know why I didn't think of this. I probably were too engrossed with all the mishaps you had, including reversing the battery cables.
The most likely suspect has been staring at us all this time - your cracked header sets off the chain reaction. Our little car is notorious being fussy with what it reads from the pre and post cat O2 sensors. You cracked header causes fresh air to be sucked in from the crack, and led to O2 sensors (ECU) reading too lean. It will try to enrich the a/f during part throttle, which may lead to fouling of the plug in the weakest cylinder. When you pulled and read the plugs, did the other cylinders also read rich?
I would not start throwing money replacing expensive parts in a shotgun fashion.
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
Originally Posted by CSP
Where was it cracked? Also - that doesn't explain cyl #3.
The header was cracked at the cup-shaped joint right after the flex pipe! And cylinder 3 wasn't getting fuel due to a badly seated injector from troubleshooting the hesitation on the PCH. Here are some pics of the spark plugs.
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
Base calling sarom058. Do you copy? What is the latest mission status?
Mission control, this is sarom058. Car is at dynasport in Portland, they're installing the exhaust. You guys were spot on. Header crack made it think it's running lean.
I got to the parts car in rural Washington yesterday. Spent half the day pulling parts, picked up a modified oem header (complete with 2 like-new oxygen sensors :thumbs up, Milltek catback, aftermarket 9mm wires, screamin demon coil, injectors, fuel rail, intercooler, boost tube, bypass valve, Map, Tmap, and blue Alta silicone upper rad hose up for $300!
Swapped the wires, checked my injectors (found an o ring was broken), swapped wires, and it ran great! Sorting the map issues on my own once I have the car back today.
Will post tons of DSLR pictures of my adventure when I get back home to internet. I wish I could've stopped at modmini, I just missed your guys' responses.
That being said, any Oregon/Portland guys want to meet up and cruise tonight? I'd love to see some of the good roads out here. I'll take tons of pics!
Last edited by sarom058; Aug 11, 2017 at 12:17 PM.
The header was cracked at the cup-shaped joint right after the flex pipe! And cylinder 3 wasn't getting fuel due to a badly seated injector from troubleshooting the hesitation on the PCH. Here are some pics of the spark plugs.
Mission control, this is sarom058. Car is at dynasport in Portland, they're installing the exhaust. You guys were spot on. Header crack made it think it's running lean.
I got to the parts car in rural Washington yesterday. Spent half the day pulling parts, picked up a modified oem header (complete with 2 like-new oxygen sensors :thumbs up, Milltek catback, aftermarket 9mm wires, screamin demon coil, injectors, fuel rail, intercooler, boost tube, bypass valve, Map, Tmap, and blue Alta silicone upper rad hose up for $300!
Swapped the wires, checked my injectors (found an o ring was broken), swapped wires, and it ran great! Sorting the map issues on my own once I have the car back today.
Will post tons of DSLR pictures of my adventure when I get back home to internet. I wish I could've stopped at modmini, I just missed your guys' responses.
That being said, any Oregon/Portland guys want to meet up and cruise tonight? I'd love to see some of the good roads out here. I'll take tons of pics!
I am so glad to hear your worst of crisis is over. I know all too well what that must had been like being all alone feeling helpless thousand miles from home.
If your can make it I will be doing HPDE at PIR starting circa 4pm today. There may be other Mini's too. If you can come, please be warned Friday afternoon traffic between Portland downtown and PIR will be very bad , so you will want to get there earlier. The gate opens at 3pm.
Last edited by pnwR53S; Aug 11, 2017 at 12:31 PM.
Reason: remove photos
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
I am so glad to hear your worst of crisis is over. I know all too well what that must had been like being all alone feeling helpless thousand miles from home.
If your can make it I will be doing HPDE at PIR starting circa 4pm today. There may be other Mini's too. If you can come, please be warned Friday afternoon traffic between Portland downtown and PIR will be very bad , so you will want to get there earlier. The gate opens at 3pm.
When does it go until? Can I get there late? Do I need a cage and/or helmet? My tires are shot, but I have a spare set of federal 595ss's for the fronts (no idea where to get them mounted, though)
When does it go until? Can I get there late? Do I need a cage and/or helmet? My tires are shot, but I have a spare set of federal 595ss's for the fronts (no idea where to get them mounted, though)
You might still be able to sign up online. But you will need a Snell 2005 or newer helmet. Their tech inspection is quite lenient. In all honesty I don't recommend try to rush in since you didn't plan for it. Way too little time now. Spectators are free, and you can ride in the parade lap without helmet.
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
I'll try to drop by! Not sure because family. I'll definitely pass tech if there's no cage requirements! Drivetrain is solid as a rock—brand new suspension/brakes/poly mounts. Only thing I could use is fluid and stainless lines.
I'll try to drop by! Not sure because family. I'll definitely pass tech if there's no cage requirements! Drivetrain is solid as a rock—brand new suspension/brakes/poly mounts. Only thing I could use is fluid and stainless lines.
Where can I get helmets for cheap?
You guys would not believe this. I drove first session at PIR, and everything went well. In the second session, after the warm up lap in the second open lap 3/4 way thru, as I accelerateed WOT at the back straight I heard a loud bang. Very loud. When I looked up at the rearview mirror there was this old Civic behind me, and all I could see is a huge cloud of blue smoke. My Mini became really loud, and I knew immediately I need to come in. As I past the flag station the guy was waving the black flag.
I thought, crap! I must have broke something so major even the flagman could see it and he waved me to come in.
I drove really easy to a safe spot and checked my Mini. The exhaust was very loud and I immediately suspected that I broke the header. Oil pressure, temp, and vacuum/pressure are all normal. The sun just begin to set and I thought I better try to limp home while there is light.
I asked Dale (who work the grid and a member here) to whom the black flag was for. It turns out the Civic happen to blew something right when my header broke.
Actually I only suspect it is the header as it just sound unmistakeably. I drove 7 miles home choosing the flattest route, and try to keep the throttle as light as possible using the right gear. I shut the engine off at the light so not to have the hot exhaust burn something. I was bracing for the inevitable CEL, but it never come.
Have you show up I could have cry on your shoulder.
The Mini is in the driveway now in one piece. I have not a chance to determine where the break is, or if it is say a break on one of the 4 pipes. I will perform the autopsy tomorrow morning.
I let the engine cool down a bit. I decided to grab a length of PVC hose (use it like a directional acoustic microphone) to at least do a quick attempt to rough locate the noise. If it is say the exhaust gasket or one of the 4 pipes I want to know now.
I was able to with fairly high confidence locate the break is either at the beginning or at the end of the flex joint before the cat. Definitely not one of of the 4 exhaust pipes or at the flange. I can sleep better tonight know this.
No one can say I didn't drive my Mini with gusto at the track.
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
I let the engine cool down a bit. I decided to grab a length of PVC hose (use it like a directional acoustic microphone) to at least do a quick attempt to rough locate the noise. If it is say the exhaust gasket or one of the 4 pipes I want to know now.
I was able to with fairly high confidence locate the break is either at the beginning or at the end of the flex joint before the cat. Definitely not one of of the 4 exhaust pipes or at the flange. I can sleep better tonight know this.
No one can say I didn't drive my Mini with gusto at the track.
HOLY COW! Seems like header problems are rampant in the PNW this week! Lol the Milltek seems so quiet after driving around for 600 freeway miles with an open header
Sorry that I missed PIR last night, family was difficult. :/ The guys at Dynasport said they can fix the header for $100 though! You can maybe ask them if they could fab something up with bits of my old one!