2009 R56 S. 130K miles

Roughly a year ago I got a CEL for "timing over retarded". I hoped that it was a hiccup and cleared it to see if it would come back. About 3 months ago it came back. I took out the VANOS solenoid and cleaned it, and I did not get a CEL for awhile. Just recently it came back again. I assumed that I just needed to replace the VANOS solenoid, but my mechanic suggested I take the valve cover off to check the timing first. I did so expecting it to be fine..... but it was not. The intake cam is definitely off. The engine seems to run fine. On to the questions:

- Does the VANOS system reset to "center" whenever the engine is off?
- Is it possible that a faulty solenoid or non return valve would prevent it from going back to "center" when off?
- Has anyone here seen something like this before?
- Is there anything else to the VANOS system other than the sprocket, solenoid, and non return valve?
- If the timing is constantly off like it appears to be, why doesn't it throw a CEL constantly? Seems like it should reappear quickly after clearing it.
- Does this self diagnosis makes since?: The spring in the VANOS socket may be "weak", so it is not returning to the correct position. The exhaust camshaft is in time, so it seems like if there was something wrong with the rest of the timing chain system then both would be off. Thus, the VANOS sprocket is faulty and needs to be replaced.
- Would replacing just the VANOS sprocket fix this? My mechanic suggests I replace the chain etc. while in there, but I would rather avoid messing with that and the extra $400 in parts.

Thanks for the help.

 

have you already replaced the timing chain? (the kit is about 100 online)

Try to reset the timing again and if the code appears again, then you know that either the vanos solenoid or the sprocket is faulty.

make sure you replace the sprocket bolt. and use the right torques.

 

Just curious, because it doesn't make sense for an engine to run properly with the timing off. Can you explain how you cam to the determination that the intake cam is not timed correctly?

 

looking at your locking tools, the exhaust lock is flushed with the cylinder head. Looking the intake, it is like 5-10 degrees off which could be because of the vanos or solenoid. So, i'm suggesting redoing it so you know for fact that the timing is set. if it comes back with the same code, then you know it is the solenoid or sprocket.

 

The prior owner replaced it. Not sure when. I've had it since 90K miles.

How would I reset the timing? Do you mean manually loosen the Camshaft bolt and turn it to have it lined up correctly? Seems like that could potentially make it worse.

 

The tool does not fit flush. Thus, the IN and OUT cams are not aligned. With the the engine flywheel locked the tool should slide right on.

 

Can the solenoid effect the position while the engine is off?

 

the solenoid works off of the oil pressure which could be set at a certain point, not sure.

since you only replaced the vanos a while ago when this happened, the timing was was still off. the ecu might prevent the vanos from working because the intake is already advanced.

 

I never replaced the solenoid. Just took it out and cleaned it.

 

perhaps im reading way too many posts..lol

I think when it happened to me, i replaced the solenoid and reset the timing.

do you have all of your locking tools to reset the timing?

 

I gave to tools. See the above picture.

was your timing off even when the engine was off?

Seems like all oil pressure should go away when the engine is off, so shouldn't it reset to "center" regardless of the functionality of the solenoid?

I could just reset the timing, but I'd like to know why it went out of time first. Seems like the only reason it could have is the VANOS sprocket. In that case it would need to be replaced.

 

In order to set timing the cam locking tool and flywheel lock needs to be in place. Adjusting the timing is simple enough, a spanner and a socket wrench. However the sprocket fasteners are single use. Buy new bolts before you start.

 

It should not effect it. When engine is off, the timing lock tools should slide in and align.

 

What is the spanner wrench for?

 

So based off suggestions on here and talking with my mechanic, I think I am going to try and just replace the solenoid and manually moving timing back into place. I will keep an eye out for DTC's and CEL's, and also check the timing again a month later to make sure it didn't move back.

Does anyone have experience with this? Its $100 cheaper than OEM so I would expect it to be a POS, but it has good reviews.
It seems as though the timing is off, but still within the area that the VANOS and ECU can correct for it. So as soon as the engine is running, the VANOS will move it to whatever timing the ECU wants, even if it is off by ~5 degrees when off. The only reason that I got a mix of DTC's and CEL's for timing over retarded and VANOS solenoid is that the VANOS solenoid is starting to go bad and it failed to allow the VANOS system to correct / adjust to the timing the ECU wants.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


However, the real question is..... How did it go out of time in the first place??

Also, will moving the timing back to the correct location freak the ECU out? Will I need to reset anything?

 

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net...5d&oe=59DA3298
After your flywheel is pinned and locked you begin to setup the cam locking brackets. It's best to read the section in the Bentley carefully, but you will end up having to turn the cam with a spanner wrench to get the cam locking bracket correctly in place. This requires you to loosen the sprocket fastener and then turn the cam to line it up so the bracket will correctly sit in place. Then tighten it in place. Start with the exhaust cam as it has to be done before the intake and repeat with the intake. Once both sides are done and the text on the cams is at top position and both locked in position you could either do the timing chain replacement or just finish up with torquing in new bolts on the sprockets. At that point once the torque is done it should be correctly timed. Didn't mention the tensioner, but you'll end up fooling with it also in the process.

 

I assume this is all covered in the Bentley Manual? I've got one in the mail.

By removing the bolt to replace it, I assume I will have to remove the tension on the chain, and carefully hold the sprocket in place so that the chain / sprocket doesn't fall? Is there anything holding the VANOS sprocket in place other than the bolt that I will remove?

Is it possible that by removing the tensioner, the chain will have enough slack in it for gravity to pull it off the crankshaft sprocket, this removing the existing timing?

 

The cam sprockets nor the drive sprocket is keyed. Tension from the bolts and friction hold them in place. These can slip if the bolt stretches. As the cam becomes more retarded the VANOS can compensate to a certain extent. As more slippage occurs the ECU begins to have to add more fuel to compensate. This can be seen in the long term fuel trim with DashCommand and other diagnostic tools. Long term fuel trims can vary based on tuning and ethanol content of the fuel. A positive LTFT of 6% to 8% is not a reason for concern but if it climbs higher than ~9% the cam timing is probably off.

 

The Bentley is a passable manual. It is a bit deficient and some sections are poor on torques. As Tigger said, the sprockets are friction held. It is critical to properly lock the flywheel and cams prior to loosening sprocket fastener. It has enough slack with the timing chain tensioner to do so. Anyway read the section before starting. Everything can be fixed even if a minor mishap occurs.

 

Literally got the Bentley a few hours ago and I have been glued to it since. "are poor on torques." as in wrong or as in some values are missing?

Well there is no way for me to lock the intake cam as it is off time. Can I lock everything else instead and then lock the intake cam once it is in time?

 

I just checked, the camshaft timing section is pretty well covered. You shouldn't have a problem if you follow the Bentley procedure. Just read it before loosening the sprockets fasteners. My memory isn't the best. I usually reread before a task is started.

 

Some sections missing torques and a few items had numbers that didn't make sense. Like 20Nm on a small bolt when it probably should have been 10Nm. The upper guide rail I would not torque to 20Nm.

For the timing procedure you should be fine with what's there. On the locking follow the section as outlined just go through it step by step.

 

Also some places the manual covers single use bolts well and in others not. I found out on a few that MINI recommends a new bolt or nut and it was not mentioned in the manual.

 

Just checked. 2.3% What is the timeframe that LTFT uses to find the average?

 

Do you have another manual that you recommend?