S model- which clutch - Oem DM or Valeo Single mass? - North American Motoring


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S model- which clutch - Oem DM or Valeo Single mass?

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Old 05-30-2017, 12:33 AM
RudeJoe RudeJoe is offline
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S model- which clutch - Oem DM or Valeo Single mass?

I'm having a hard time deciding whether to replace my current OEM clutch with another or switch to a single mass Valeo setup. Cost is about the same for the Luk DM and the Valeo. Thoughts, recommendations, + and - of each? This is on a 2006 S model R52 with just over 200k. Thanks!
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:30 AM
VelvetFoot VelvetFoot is offline
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Hi. I replaced an oem dual mass clutch with a heavier single mass on my 2000 vw tdi diesel because it was slipping after the mods I made. It was a good bit noisier. I'd stick with OEM dual mass if I could.
edit: I meant heavier duty.

Last edited by VelvetFoot; 05-30-2017 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:59 AM
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cristo cristo is offline
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The Valeo is actually a little lighter than the dual mass on the MINI,
and the DM has its own reputation for noisiness and reliability in some cases
(Chewbacca sound).
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:05 AM
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Most people do the valeo because of the cost and then losing that heavy dual mass. Where are you getting the luk dual mass and clutch cheaper than the valeo DM to SM clutch kit?

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-flywheel.html
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeJoe View Post
I'm having a hard time deciding whether to replace my current OEM clutch with another or switch to a single mass Valeo setup. Cost is about the same for the Luk DM and the Valeo. Thoughts, recommendations, + and - of each? This is on a 2006 S model R52 with just over 200k. Thanks!
Just that I thought that I would throw in another less common option. I recently installed a Quaife LSD so I researched hi and lo on a set of clutch kit that I would be happy with. I decided to take the path less travel and went with Exede SM conversion kit. If I have not mistaken the flywheel of the Exede kit is about 2 lbs lighter than the Valeo, and a lot lighter than the OE DM. I weighted the Exede flywheel and it comes in at 18.5 lbs.

I found no increase in NVH. I like the sharper engagement and much better feedback of the Exede clutch over the OE. There is very little, and no accurate reported owner experience on the Exede kit. The pedal effort is on par with the OE DM clutch or may be slightly lighter, not as reported by some that it is extremely heavy. If you shop around the cost of the Exede kit is nearly on par with the Valeo. The pressure plate and friction disc are made in Japan and it comes with a release bearing identical to the Mini OE one.

With lighter but not over the top flywheel the throttle response is quite noticeable. I do notice the subtle effect of the gearbox/drivetrain backlashes when you modulate the throttle but to me this comes with the territory with SM flywheel.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:42 PM
RudeJoe RudeJoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSTuning View Post
Most people do the valeo because of the cost and then losing that heavy dual mass. Where are you getting the luk dual mass and clutch cheaper than the valeo DM to SM clutch kit?

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-flywheel.html
Since you asked... Amazon and Rock Auto. I've bought a lot from you (ECS) but your about twice Rock Auto prices on these items.

Thanks for the link. I followed it to other links also. Seems like the Valeo, with few exceptions, is good. Features/characteristics of the OEM are also compelling. Tough decision from this perspective when prices are similar.

Last edited by RudeJoe; 05-30-2017 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pnwR53S View Post
Just that I thought that I would throw in another less common option. I recently installed a Quaife LSD so I researched hi and lo on a set of clutch kit that I would be happy with. I decided to take the path less travel and went with Exede SM conversion kit. If I have not mistaken the flywheel of the Exede kit is about 2 lbs lighter than the Valeo, and a lot lighter than the OE DM. I weighted the Exede flywheel and it comes in at 18.5 lbs.

I found no increase in NVH. I like the sharper engagement and much better feedback of the Exede clutch over the OE. There is very little, and no accurate reported owner experience on the Exede kit. The pedal effort is on par with the OE DM clutch or may be slightly lighter, not as reported by some that it is extremely heavy. If you shop around the cost of the Exede kit is nearly on par with the Valeo. The pressure plate and friction disc are made in Japan and it comes with a release bearing identical to the Mini OE one.

With lighter but not over the top flywheel the throttle response is quite noticeable. I do notice the subtle effect of the gearbox/drivetrain backlashes when you modulate the throttle but to me this comes with the territory with SM flywheel.
What is NVH?

Even though the clutch on this (new to me) MCS is well on its way out I am still struck by how smooth it is while driving in and around town. I've been trying to teach my daughter how to drive a stick and its been quite easy for her (and me) with this clutch because it is so forgiving.

Where can I find more info on the Exede kit?
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:17 PM
RudeJoe RudeJoe is offline
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Just looked up NVH - noise vibration and harshness - correct?
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeJoe View Post
Since you asked... Amazon and Rock Auto. I've bought a lot from you (ECS) but your about twice Rock Auto prices on these items.

Thanks for the link. I followed it to other links also. Seems like the Valeo, with few exceptions, is good. Features/characteristics of the OEM are also compelling. Tough decision from this perspective when prices are similar.
Thanks for your business, we appreciate it.

Thanks for letting me know. I remember it being much higher priced on there.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeJoe View Post
What is NVH?

Even though the clutch on this (new to me) MCS is well on its way out I am still struck by how smooth it is while driving in and around town. I've been trying to teach my daughter how to drive a stick and its been quite easy for her (and me) with this clutch because it is so forgiving.

Where can I find more info on the Exede kit?
Very nice to hear you are teaching your daughter to drive manual. I think knowing how make a better driver. I should point out the Exede clutch has sharper engagement (which is what I want) over the OE Luk so is less forgiving for a learner. However, didn't we all learnt on clutches like this? I would think any young people with open mind wanting to learn can learn on a race clutch if they have the interest.

Exede has pretty good parts catalog online and they also sell the kit direct. You can find cheaper price elsewhere with some persistence.
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:09 AM
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It might help in your research if you spelled "Exedy" correctly - it's not "Exede".

I have a Valeo kit sitting in my car waiting to go in, along with a Quaife LSD and some other upgrades/maintenance items. I looked around at some higher torque rated clutches and decided I didn't want to deal with any extra NVH, stiffer engagement or anything else that results from a clutch that is meant to hold much more torque than OEM. The Valeo has apparently been known to hold 270whp, but I think the Luk will do that too.

I don't think anyone will have a clear answer for you - and it's not like I can help much considering I haven't installled my Valeo yet - but I don't think you'd go wrong with either the Valeo or Luk. Those are the standard for stock or lightly modded cars, not much reason to go for anything else.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:29 PM
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If it was me (and it almost was ), I would have ended up going the DM flywheel with the OEM/Luk clutch route. I always enjoyed the OE MINI setup and didn't see any reason to deviate since there were no plans to up the car's HP. Also, I hadn't done as much pricing research as you and the SM Valeo was a contender only due to the savings it offered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeJoe View Post

Even though the clutch on this (new to me) MCS is well on its way out I am still struck by how smooth it is while driving in and around town. I've been trying to teach my daughter how to drive a stick and its been quite easy for her (and me) with this clutch because it is so forgiving.
Glad to hear this!
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:26 PM
RudeJoe RudeJoe is offline
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Thanks for all the input!

I did find the correct spelling of Excedy shortly after posting my question and looked them up. Thanks for the suggestion less traveled.

I do really like the feel of the DM clutch when taking my daughter out, there was never any bucking when she didn't get the clutch in or rough driving when she bogged the engine.

At this point I'm leaning toward the DM. Without a compelling difference in price and with no need for increased performance (this is a high mileage convertible after all) I think the benefits in shifting out way a potential slight increase in performance.

One huge issue that I haven't mentioned is reliability as I don't want to have to go through the install again any time soon. I have read some Luk clutch kit's throw out bearings have failed prematurely. I not sure how wide spread this is. I've not done any research into better TOBs yet. I'm not sure if this is a component that gets much attention since most kits come with one.

Yes, my daughter is motivated to learn to drive a stick as she doesn't want my wife, son, and I to have all the fun.

I need to get a new clutch and a couple other items to really enjoy the car though.

Thanks again!
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:36 PM
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The factory flywheel and clutch set that I removed are in extremely good condition. You can have them for a reasonable price but the weight of all the shipping cost would likely kill the deal, unless you are in Pacific NW for local pickup. I am very gentle on my clutches.

You can see the photos here.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:56 PM
RudeJoe RudeJoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwR53S View Post
The factory flywheel and clutch set that I removed are in extremely good condition. You can have them for a reasonable price but the weight of all the shipping cost would likely kill the deal, unless you are in Pacific NW for local pickup. I am very gentle on my clutches.

You can see the photos here.
Oh, hey. I did read your thread. I've watched Mod Mini's clutch replace video on YouTube a few times now and read your thread. I have to admit your way seemed like it was less work. I don't have an engine hoist and really don't want to buy one so I will probably follow MM's lead when the time comes.

Re: your used OEM Clutch. I would imagine shipping would get expensive as it would probably weigh 40lbs once packaged up and I'm in New York. Can't get much further away and still be on the continent.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:52 PM
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I put a valeo clutch in my e46 and enjoyed it. Felt very similar to stock in shift point and weight. I noticed the slightest hint of chatter with the windows down at idle only. I wouldn't hesitate to put one in the mini, and probably will when the time comes.

That being said, I have a NIB Spec clutch/single mass flywheel for sale that came with my car. It's OBO...
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:58 PM
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I'm currently running a Valeo SM clutch kit. The clutch engagement is completely different, about 1.5 inches from the floor. I love it. A friend of mine also runs a Valeo SM, he's got to be getting 250+ HP (EASY) out of his car, and he's never complained/noted any slippages.

But keep in mind, MINI used the heavier dual mass flywheel to not only help (sissy's) drive stick, but also to help with weight distribution of the transmission. Essentially helping to absorb a bit of the small engine's torque or revolutions that could cause unwanted vibration. You WILL notice some chatter and NVH. Especially if you're running stiffer (ProFlex) motor mounts. Nothing extreme, but it's a noticeable difference.

Basically:
Dual Mass = Smoother, EASY shifts (Luxury)
Single Mass = Harsher, yet better shift engagement (Performance)
/$.02
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:51 AM
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I've had the Valeo in my JCW for about 6,000 miles now....and it's been great. Very light pedal feel vs. the oem clutch...but I've gotten used to it. You can feel a little bit of chatter/vibration while taking off sometimes...but it's not a big deal. If I had to do it again, I would still put the Valeo in it. My car makes good power, and the Valeo holds it just fine.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Basically:
Dual Mass = Smoother, EASY shifts (Luxury)
Single Mass = Harsher, yet better shift engagement (Performance)
/$.02
That's pretty much what most people say.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:54 PM
RudeJoe RudeJoe is offline
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Thanks for all the input and discussion. I ended up ordering the DM Luk as I wanted to make sure it shifts easily and drives well for the rest of my family. Now for the task of changing it out...
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:13 AM
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Welcome. If you need anything else let me know.
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