The 2004 MCS continues to suffer from what I believe is the cold-start problem. First start in the morning always stalls.

Any solutions?

This is becoming a really annoying problem and is about to cause me to get rid of the damn car.

Regards, Mark, Portland, OR

 

Do you leave the key on a few seconds before you your turn it over. Turn the key two clicks , let it set for about 5 seconds then try.

 

...or try a different gas. I know I can't run any gas with ethanol or I get the same problem.

 

i hear a very lightweight oil also helps. 0w 40? never tried it though. makes sense.

 

My 03 MC starts from 47C down to -47C,first time, every time:smile:

 

Mine does this too -- always has, despite numerous ECU upgrades to correct this and the stumble. As someone above mentioned: turn it 2 clicks, wait for all start-up lights to extinguish while repeating aloud; "it isn't a defect, it's a characteristic", then crank.

Should start on the first time then.

 

good luck. my '02 MCS does the same thing but for the fact that the colder it is, the more likely it is to start on the first shot. for those of us who are old enough to remember manual chokes, this is the height of irony . the dealer and the factory rep have no solution. update w/ v whatever will do nothing to cure it...

 

My '03 MCS, 30K miles, started doing this several months ago, every morning, without fail. Last Saturday I was doing a little work on it and decided to check/clean the plugs. They looked pretty good but I hit them with the wire wheel on my bench grinder and then re-installed them. The last 3 mornings the car has started up and not missed a beat. Just my experience.

 

My car continues to suffer from this cold start problem. My previous car was a BMW, and it also required a few seconds of waiting before turning to start. In fact, I might have been the first person to suggest this as a possible fix. However, this "work-around" works for some, but not for me.

I also tried different brands of gasoline as someone else suggested. Still, nothing helped.

Another "work-around" suggested by a BMW technician is to temporary run lower-octane fuel. Lower Octane fuel ignites easier, and it does appear that my car starts easier as well. However, I just couldn't live with the poorer gas mileage and poorer acceleration.

All of the starting problem started when gasoline was switched to the summer formulation. To answer your question of when your '04 MCS will start on the 1st try, my guess is when gasoline gets switched to the winter formulation.

And finally someone from the factory reported that MINI is not working on a fix of this issue at this time. I wonder if MINI is even aware of how wide spread this problem is. My guess is most cars with the latest software running on summer gas suffers from the cold start problem, but I have no way of verifying that. Maybe someone could start a poll?

 

When a car won't start when it is cold, but performs well otherwise, I always think about the fuel system. Most new cars have electric fuel pumps, and fuel injection cars have an even stronger one. Air in a fuel line, or a defective pump can cause low fuel pressure at startup. This is often why sitting a few seconds solves the problem - the fuel pump goes on when you turn the ignition on, and the pressure builds from the first second. Problem is that a lot of modern cars have the fuel pump inside the gas tank, so they are difficult to get at. If the dealer has tried everything else, maybe that would be next.

 

At this point I am pretty sure it is a software problem. This hard to start condition first occured when the gas formulation was switched to the summer formulation.

For those who have been around for a while, recall that the software version which brought us the "stumble" was intended to fix a cold start problem. Now that the stumble is fixed, I am not surprised that they gave us back the cold start problem.

Today I called 866-ASK-MINI, and the rep said yes they are aware of the problem, and yes they are looking at it, but no fixes are planned. They usual "stay in touch with your dealer".

 

Thanks for the responses everyone!

1. I've tried the lower octane gas solution. Didn't work.
2. I've tried several different gas stations -- all high quality. This didn't solve the problem.
3. I too agree that this is likely a mapping problem. I'm sick and tired of hearing from the dealer that this is a problem with the gas. Give me a break. The problem gas doesn't affect my other cars.
4. I've had the v38 S/W reset. Didn't help.

I will try the key delay solution.

I'm just surprised that such a widespread problem has no solution. Write letters to your favorite auto rag. Perhaps if a few million readers find out about the problem, MINI might fix the damn thing.

Regards, Mark

 

I've almost convinced myself that this little 'characteristic' is simply good old fashioned vapor lock. The MINI engine it 'returnless' meaning that unlike most previous fuel injection designs, the fuel does not continually circulate fuel from the tank, through the regulator, across the injector bank then back to the tank. Instead, the fuel 'dead-ends' in the injector rail. After driving a while then parking, the engine heat soaks into the fuel rail. If the fuel pressure is not held by the check valve in the pump, the fuel will evaporate, causing a big dry area of vapor in the fuel rail. Restarting the car, especially before letting the pump do it's little priming run beforehand will find no fuel around the injectors (basically air in the lines). The vapor instead of solid fuel gets into the engine and the engines sputters and stalls. A subsequent restart ends up being fine, since the lines and rail have been purged.

I've encountered a few (newer) cars that have various forms of stumbly or stalling starts that have returnless FI systems. It's going to be the nature of the beast. Returnless systems were designed to reduce evaporative (gas fume) emissions. Traditional EFI system circulated (returned) the gas continually, since the pump in the tank ran at a rate which would ensure adequate flow and pressure for full throttle operation. That which didnt go into the engine (like during idle and cruising) was sent back to the tank. This had the disadvantage of running the fuel past the hot engine, where it picked up heat on it's way back to the tank. After a while, the gas in the tank would get considerably heated by this process. This makes the fuel evaporate more aggressively, This now higher vapor pressure would have to be dealt with by the evaporative emissions system in the car, and would cause a rather big blast of escaping vapor when you removed the cap when refueling. All of this adds to hydrocarbon emissions. Returnless systems were one more thing added to cars to hold back on these emissions.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

interesting thought Greatbear. I do not suffer (normally) from cold-start problems. I fuel nearly exclusively with 93 octane Amoco/BP fuel. I have once fueled with Mobile 93 and had cold-start problems with that entire tank of gas. Once I fueled with shell 93 and had cold-start problem with that half of the time. Now occationally, about one a month, I have a cold-start issue. So I, too, thought this must be related to vapor lock or similar phenomenon until one time, my wife moved my MCS from the driveway to the street. 15 minutes later I needed to leave and I had a cold-start issue. The car was cool and had just been driven. Fuel must have been at the rail. Until this point, I would have agreed with any theory about evaporation or vaporization. Now, I'm not so convinced. Could it be unburned fuel in the combustion chamber after turning off ignition making the next start act as if it were flooded?

 

ZERO cold start or engine idle issues with my '04 MCS with 13K miles (9/2003 build). The car is still running on V36 of the software and I use Citgo 93 Premium gas.

The car starts on the first turn of the key everytime, hot or cold engine.

 

mattcoon, what you described about moving the car a short distance, shut it down, then the car won't re-start, is a BMW "feature". The workaround I've always used is to turn the key to position 2 and wait for 5 seconds before starting

I just had software V39 installed. For the past two days, my car still struggled to start, but did make it on the first try. I hope it stays this way. (start on the first try, not the struggling to start part)

 

Nice "feature". I have Graham in right now for routine maintenance (10k) and they apparently know about the cold-start and currently have a campaign for this issue. I should have him back on monday and I'll put in gas that previously had problems and report.

 

Well I never had a cold start problem till they installed v39... now for the last 4 mornings it stalled immediately and started right back up. I don't know if it was gas or not, am using sam's club premium for first time?? who knows?will wait for a tank of shell or sunoco that i normally use. Tim

 

I brought mine to the dealer & they did a code check and it seems to be working fine. They suggested premium gas always! I thought I got a MINI to be economical Premium & 87 seem to do the same.........

 

my dealer just installed v.39. cold start problem persisted until the ambient temp dropped under 55F at night. cold weather = no more cold start problem...just a small measure of irony in this development. the dealer also insisted that i should be using 91 octane instead of the hess 93 that i have used since i bought the car.

 

Or, you could move to Florida and put 94 Sunoco in it. Mine does it occasionally if it sits for more than a day or two in the winter.

 

I had the same problem. Read the manual and relized I was giving it the gas like my ford truck. Now I simply turn the key (without foot on gas) and she starts right up.

 

I had the same problem. Then I read the manual. Now I keep my foot off the gas and she starts right up.

 

Mine was built in 9/03 and has not been back to the dealer yet, so it has whatever software they were using in 9/03.

In the summer if I parked the car hot, the heat soak problem occurred the next morning, IF I used "urban Gas" but not when I used "Suburban" gas. As in Gas from an area that requires clean burn vs one that does not.

I am of the impression that in Illinois most gas is 10% ethanol although some brands may not be. My regular station has all the warning stickers on the pumps about "up to 10% ethanol" I think they have to use ethanol or MTBE for the "clean" burning gas.

I have been using a different brand of gas lately and I don't recall seeing Ethanol lables on the pump.

Now that the morning temperatures are in the 40's I have no cold start / stall problem, but I do get Mild Yo You under light throttle, at around 2,000.

I don't know if we have changed gas formulas for the winter yet or not.

If anyone knows more about clean burning gas Id love to hear about how it relates to our starting problems.

JD

 

Doesn't anyone hear the fuel pump priming the injectors when you rotate the key to position 2?

My wife complained of hard starting on our 03 MCS, and I found that she was starting the car without allowing the fuel pump to prime.

You get a five second buzz from the pump as it runs up. Then you turn the key the rest of the way to start the engine.

If she waits for the 'prime time', there is no starting issue on our MINI...

Chris.