Wow, 5th generation tensioner. So they've made five attempts on the tensioner so far.
When you say the timing "chain" has also been updated since 2013, what exactly was updated on it?
I have a 2013 year model purchased in Dec. of 2012. Would this have the latest and greatest gen. 5 tensioner? Obviously it would not have the "upgraded" timing chain since that didn't come out until since 2013?
It really sucks that there have been so many attempts by Mini Cooper to find a "fix" for the timing chain problems while my dealership still maintains that the timing chain assembly is ok and that if you only kept oil in your Mini you would not have any problems, that is to say it's the owners fault if something goes wrong.
Just sucks.

 

According to the "page 3" you sent me, 6Nm is the torque setting for measuring slack. Operating chain pretension is supposed to be 4NM. So yes, the chain should be "pretty darn tight" at 6NM! All sprockets should have been tightened while the chain was pretensioned at 4Nm.

I summarized the whole timing process in the following thread --- "R56/N14 No start after Timinng chain install" post #6. If you deviate from this basic process, you're at risk. Once properly set, there will be random slack between components. Again --- FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS IN THE BENTLEY MANUAL and you should be OK.

 

I was curious what, if any, should the max deflection between the sprockets when chain is properly tensioned. I currently see very little deflection in chain at its loosest point. It's hard to measure because there is so little movement. Also, is it 6nm or 0.6nm? My sources show 0.6nm. Also not sure where the 4nm comes from. Probably Bentley manual and could it be a misprint?

 

OK, 0.6Nm --- I get sloppy when I repeat myself. Same with the 4 --- it should be 0.4Nm. Could it be a "misprint"? Sure, it could be, But I seriously doubt it. I used it and it's working fine. When pretension is set to 0.6 for measurement, then the tensioner is installed at 0.4, there's bound to be a little slop somewhere.

I realize the Bentley manual is kinda pricey, but the info it contains is well worth it.

Proceed with whatever process you choose. You've been advised by a couple of people and given a source or two for more info. Good luck!

 

Here's an easy link to post #6
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...n-install.html

I was looking for this thread to mark it for future reference last weak and never found it.
Thanks oldbrokenwind excellent post. Ties the fact that the crank gear is not indexed or keyed and your indexing the crank gear with chain tension. When I change mine I'll read this post right before and then reference the Bentley Manual.

 

Why do you guys put up with this?? If you have to take your car to the dealership more than twice for the same issue and they still can't permanently fix it then why not move on to a better car. There's no way that with modern engineering and technology that they can't figure it out within 5 attempts. That must be so frustrating and such a waste of time to keep bringing a car to the dealership.

Sorry for the rant, but this is why I left the MINI scene two years ago after four years in the game. Just revisiting my old stomping grounds and it saddens me to read all of these 'issues' threads. Don't see too many of those over at the civic Si forum.

 

No, you have an N18, it's the N14 engines that suffer from the timing chain debacle. Few N18 engines have had defective timing chains, it's entirely different design for the N18's. If you own an N14 engine keep an eye on your chain slack every 6-12 months. I checked my chain slack after 2 years, 13,000 miles, it hasn't really worn much at all. I religiously check my oil never letting it go below the half mark.

 

Yes I have the N16/N18 generation Mini VS the N12/N14 Generation. Other that the updated tensioners developed because of the deficiencies of the N12/14 models, my understanding was that the full timing chain assemblies between the N12/N14 and the N16/18 models remained virtually unchanged.
Certainly it would be great news if the N16/N18 timing chain assembly had in fact resolved the deficiencies inherent in the N12/N14 models but I have never seen any proof that such is in fact the case , only claims void of substantive fact.
What exactly has been changed in these timing chain assemblies ( other that the already afore mentioned gen5 tensioner) that has resolved these deficiencies?
Can you please post/provide us a link to such proof of these changes made?
I would absolutely love it if I knew for a fact that my Mini Cooper produced and sold in the last part of 2012 (it's a 2013 model coupe) contained a timing chain assembly devoid of all the deficiencies of the N12/N14's. I would just like to see proof of this in black and white rather that just suppositions based on a view that there appears to be "fewer" failures reported with the N16/N18 models. While there may be some truth to this, the fact still remains that failures have indeed occurred in the N16/N18 models.
Other factors may be at play, but until I can see definitive proof I do not believe there is any real difference ( other than the afore mentioned gen5 tensioner) between the N12/N14 and theN16/N18 timing chain assembly's.

 

You just sound like a quitter looking for the easiest route in life.

 

I owned an r50 for two years then purchased an r56 S for another two years and I've been a member on here for quite a long time compared to most.

Also you're right, I did quit paying to fix terribly designed components of a car. My initial question wasn't rhetorical, I'm genuinely interested in why people put up with a car that keeps needing the same repair. It also irks me that MINI is only now putting out service bulletins for items that required constant repair on a 10 year old car. Not the proper way to treat customers.

 

You might try looking at RealOEM.com but instead of using your VIN, check out the various years / models for timing chain part numbers. I expect that for each variation in chain, there will be a corresponding part number change.

If I really cared, I'd check it out myself, but I suffer from severe laziness, among other maladies.

 

Thanks, I looked up the timing chain for my coupe and found that the same chain was used for the N12/N14 and N16/N18. Same chain for Justa's, S's and JCW's
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=11311439853


Looks to me like nothing has really changed that much in the timing chain assemblies other than repeated tries with the tensioners and no real reason to believe a final lasting solution to the timing chain failures has been found.
My belief is that Mini Cooper has pretty much washed their hands of this mess and moved on to the new BMW engine Mini Coopers.

 

A lot has changed in the real world, i wouldnt just click on 1 website and assume nothing has change, i don't think its up to date. I wouldn't call redesigning a new tensioner 5 times washing their hands of it. The timing chains were never really a problem, it was the tensioners themselves that wreaked havoc, Mini finely got it right with the 5th Gen of tensioners. I dont think RealOEM has been up to date woth all the changes. The new timing chain part numbers are different from what was installed less than 2 years ago, they made the chain stronger. I got to see the 4th and 5th Gen tensioner in person and there nothing alike, they don't even feel the same. You make it seem like you're on a mission to find fault with your timing chain components even though you have never had a problem at all. If you go by numbers alone of N14 timing chain failures to those with N18 failures the proof is staring you right in the face. I don't see lawsuits for timing chain failures for N18 equipped Mini's.

 

You wouldn't happen to have photos of each type would you? That would be a great resource for people to check and verify whether they have the latest version or not.

 

ECS Tuning has picture of both, the best thing you can do is visit your local Mini dealer and ask to see both 4th and 5th Gen to have in your own hands. When pushed in the 5th Gen holy molly what a smooth feeling it is, then do the same to the 4th Gen. I swear you'll know exactly what I'm taking about, there the opposite of each other in how smooth they truly are!

 

ecs tuning has three parts with descriptions that leave it very unclear what is what. I'm glad i don't need one today because i'm confused.

 

The tensioner changes aside, this is specifically what I am questioning.
You keep saying that they made the timing chain stronger.
When exactly did they do this? My 2013 was made in 2012, does it have the stronger timing chain?
What proof do you have to back up your claim that they have in fact strengthened the timing chain?
The reason I am wanting substantive answers from you to these specific questions has absolutely nothing to do with finding fault but rather everything to do with getting factual answers so that I can develop a creditable path forward.
That path forward is to develop a proactive maintenance plan that would insure that sometime down the road I will not destroy my engine due to a timing chain, vacuum pump, etc. failure. For that I need facts, not assumptions.
My 2013 Mini has a cold start rattle that is quite noticeable in cold weather, not so much when it is hot out side. This rattle in cold weather lasts for some time before finally quieting down which leads me to believe the tensioner problem is related to it's ability to build oil pressure quickly.
So yes in my opinion my 2013 is at risk of stretching the chain due to cold start rattle and whether they have "strengthened this timing chain is an important factor in looking at a proactive maintenance plan.
So, again, exactly when was this timing chain strengthened and where is the proof this has been done?
And, as others have asked, what year models did the gen5 tensioner come out in? A 2013 built in 2012?

 

My guess is this is the one you are referencing as it is Mini Cooper brand and shows that this is the fifth revision.
My question on this revised tensioner would be when was it developed and in what year models did it come from the factory in.
And if it was not installed from the factory in Mini Cooper models after 2010, then why aren't any of those models after 2010 without this revised tensioner not included in the Mini Cooper "campaign" since obviously all previous tensioners were deficient?
http://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2013-C...ing/ES1898203/

 

I'm kind of surprised that ECS is selling the previous version as well as the latest version...

http://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2010-C...ain_Tensioner/

 

Maybe the're just trying to get rid of old stock.


Another notable thing is with the timing chain kit which contains the "updated" # 11317607551 tensioner but all other components (including the chain) are the same old OEM parts none of which were updated as the tensioner was.
I believe the only change ever made to the timing chain assembly was the tensioner of which five attempts to update it to date.


http://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2013-C...ing/ES2762414/

 

Your best bet is to follow the procedures and use the latest parts Mini currently has to fix the "rattle" you hear coming from your chain. Yes, even with the latest iteration in parts developed by mini, some people are experiencing chain and chain tensioner failure. You just have to keep a close ear and at the first sign of noise check chain slack and tensioner function, replacing necessary parts. Maintenance wise all you can do is keep oil topped off and change more frequently. This doesn't prevent the problem, but not having enough fresh oil in your car will certainly cause problems.
Your only other choice if you don't want to deal with it is to get a different car. My tensioner was replaced 3 times as the noise kept coming up over the years starting at about 6500 miles. This last time my chain was so loose it skipped a few teeth out of time so that it wouldn't start. Oddly, my tensioner was still functioning just like new, but the chain was stretched and the chain guides were broken down at the crank sprocket where the clip attatches the two guides together. Just replaced the entire chain assembly.

 

I posted a thread a week back to which there was no responses. I was looking for clarification as to the actual 5th chain tensioner. My question is if systemlord and others have the supposed 5th tensioner what is the part #'s. Mini's latest chain tensioner differs from ecs tuning and realoem. Here's my link https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rt-number.html

 

Trex,


I have a 2010 n12 r56 cooper which also only rattles on cooler mornings. I have seen your youtube video's and mine sounds exactly the same.
The previous owner had the tensioner changed before I bought it. I don't know what part number it is but it has a dimple in the center of the bolt head. I believe it is the 78 mm old standard tensioner. I also believe the new standard tensioner is 82mm so if you were to have the dealer change the tensioner to the latest, it's going to be 82mm. As to which part number is the latest, well that depends who you are asking. Again, no responses from ecs tuning or any other parts retailer to my thread.

 

I agree, that is confusing. Which one is actually the newest and greatest and who do you trust to get the correct answer?
It appears that there now may be a newer GEN6 tensioner out there.
Gen1-11317601809
Gen2-11317593309
Gen3-11314609483
Gen4-11317597895
Gen5-11317607551
And now?
Gen6-11314609482 as per two Mini dealers?


Again it is interesting to note that the full timing chain kits offered by both ECS Tuning and RealOem.com list the 551 tensioner as the new updated one.
Perhaps now they need to update the full timing chain kits with the 11314609482 tensioner?

 

I spoke to two different mini dealers in two city's and according to them part ending in 482 is the latest, period.


So, I also emailed germanautoparts.com and here is their response


"Thank you for your inquiry. Part 11317607551 has been superseded by 11314609482, we supply the current 11314609482 part.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance,

Mark"