It makes some sense to me, but I have to admit I'm skeptical. I saw this last weekend on an infomertial. (Still waiting for my mini so no sleep. :smile:

http://www.tornadoair.com/

(I am not selling these or affiliated in any way with this company or any sales company)

jayoung@mailbag.com

 

I've seen this same infomercial many times and I'm very skeptical. Claims of 20hp at the dyno seem rather exaggerated. That would mean, assuming 30% drivetrain losses, that would be about 25-30 engine hp. Getting 25-30 more engine hp in most cars usually takes both a better air intake and a new exhaust system, and high-flow cats (cost ~ $1k). I forgot how much this Tornado device was (I thought it was <$100). Sounds too miraculous.

Also, if you changed the air intake by this much you would probably have to get a new MAF to get the full benefits.

I'll post a message on my WRX forum about this, we have a lot of car techies on there.

 

Not to be too much of a crank, but has anyone EVER found a device (automotive or otherwise) advertised on an infomercial that came close to doing what it was advertised to do? Besides, they don't seem to have a model that fits a MINI...

 

Yeah...like that stuff that gets rid of scratches....
Wanna make a million in real estate???

 

So something that is only running off parasitic air is supposed to IMPROVE my air flow? What kind of idiots do these people take us for? If you blow 1 pound of air into the intake, the spining of the "tornado" doesn't increase that amount. If anything, the parasitic drag of the air causing the "tornado" to spin would reduce the airflow.

I mean, why not just duct tape a pinwheel to your grille. You'd get the same result.

What's that quote from PT Barnum and a fool and his money....?

R

_________________


2002 Darksilver/Black Cooper S

 

I've enquired about such a product way back about 2 years or so ago. I asked around with a few mechanic friends of mine whom are heavily into modding out all sorts of vehicles. At the time of having my modded '99 Cougar, and '01 Lightning, I've been told by everyone around all car forums as well as automotive junkies that this product is total b.s. If this thing were able to produce such a power surge like it claims, than every Jonny riceboy out there would have one. We (the racing public) would have heard way more about this thing already if it's such a miracle worker.
From what I was told, you don't want to disrupt the flow of air too much or at all as it comes through the intake tube. It'll cause turbulant air, which won't do anything. If anything, you want a nice smooth flow. Which is why just about every racer out there has those chrome intake tubes, to replace their accordian style stock tubing. Less turbulance, and restrictions going into the engine, the better. That's what I ve been told. And with so many people saying it, how can they all be wrong. So I'm not going to be the one wasting my money.
And besides that, REAL performance products really sell themselves. They sell off the shelves by word of mouth. They don't need infomercials to get attention. Those cheesey infomercials are pretty much all a gimic.
But if they really want to sell you one, ask them for a full money back guarantee, as well as reambursement for a dyno test once you have it installed, to really prove that it is doing what they say it will.

 

>>Yeah...like that stuff that gets rid of scratches....
>>Wanna make a million in real estate???

i don't want to buy any more real estate..but after my purchase of that magical scratch remover i am now gullible enough to purchase the brookly bridge if the present owner would not mind selling it to me (or did i buy that bridge last year?)

 

I have to admit that I have one of these installed on my MINI. Figuring that they offer a 30 day money back guarantee, I thought I would give it a try. Now, my MINI has never touched a dyno, but there is definitely an increase in performance and gas mileage, although I doubt it's as high as they claim.

Okay, a little background, and then I'll try and explain how I think it works. I have a background in jet engines and nuclear power (don't ask how those two came together! ), and both deal with flow through tubing, one with air, and one with fluid. If you have straight flow through a tube, the friction at the tube walls causes two channels of stagnant air (or water) to be formed. Flow at the outer edges is constricted, while flow in the "frictionless" middle channel is much higher. Effectively, the air intake shrinks down with these two channels of stagnant air, decreasing the amount of air flowing past the throttle body.

Now take that air and swirl it. This creates a turbulent flowpath that makes it more difficult to form the stagnant air channels at the walls of the tubing, creating higher airflow. Now, the width of these channels is dependent on the flow rate of air, the channels being thinner at higher flow rates. So, at lower engine rpm's, you will get a better increase with such a device since the channels are thicker than at higher speeds. I don't know if the turbulent flow has any effect on combustion of the fuel-air mixture. And remember, we're talking about a fractional increase of airflow, but that may be all it takes to boost performance.

Whether or not you buy one is up to the individual. I'm not here to sell a product, just to add a bit of a technical perspective and personal experience. Just my $.02...

Jason

 

>>I mean, why not just duct tape a pinwheel to your grille. You'd get the same result.

 

>>Whether or not you buy one is up to the individual. I'm not here to sell a product, just to add a bit of a technical perspective and personal experience. Just my $.02...
>>
>>Jason


Jason, you forgot the best part! Does it add power or mileage to the car?

 

Will it make your paint shiny after you set your car on fire?



I'm with someone who posted about this on an earlier thread... if it was so great and simple, why doesn't your car come with some sort of insert already?

Rocketboy_X

 

>>>>Whether or not you buy one is up to the individual. I'm not here to sell a product, just to add a bit of a technical perspective and personal experience. Just my $.02...
>>>>
>>>>Jason
>>
>>
>>Jason, you forgot the best part! Does it add power or mileage to the car?

Did you read the first paragraph of his post? He stated:
"Now, my MINI has never touched a dyno, but there is definitely an increase in performance and gas mileage, although I doubt it's as high as they claim."
I'd be interested in how you quantified the improvement in gas mileage you are experiencing, MiniMe. What you posted makes sense to a non-engineer (me). Power gains from the "butt dyno" are notoriously off, but gas mileage is easy enough to quantify...

 

First off let me say that I am a recently graduated aeronautical engineer. The idea of using a turbine to cause the air to go turbulent is completely wrong. It might sort of work, but there are so many ways to cause the flow to be turbulent without de-energizing the flow using a pinwheel. Also, with the twisty tubing of an intake and the filter on the end, I bet the flow is already turbulent. Just increasing the roughness of the inside of the tube will work, or put dimples on the inside, like on a golf ball. Turbulent flow can have velocity at the wall and therefore travel faster then laminar flow which has no velocity at the wall and increases as the distance from the wall increases. Using a turbine would slow the overall flow and therefore hurt performance.

 

My favorite one of these things is the handfull of magnets you throw in the fuel tank! It really works!
... as soon as I hear them rattling around in there, I slow down - and Voila! better gas milage ...

 

LAMINAR flow! Thanks... for the life of me I couldn't remember the name of it from my nuclear power training! I think we're going to have to call a truce here. There is no hard evidence, other than the improved gas mileage. Like I said, my car has never touched a dyno. All I can say is that there seems to be increased performance when accelerating hard. But I have no scientific evidence to back it up, other than the theories already put forth.

Enough engineering, time for some MOTORING!

Jason

 

MiniMe, does the device actually spin or simply duct the air?

 

>>MiniMe, does the device actually spin or simply duct the air?

Not to blow up MiniMe's spot, but it just ducts the air..

Rocketboy_X

 

I used to have a heavily modded audi a4 turbo, and there was a company called roar (i think it was a few years ago) and they had a very similar product and it was huge scam. They had some of their own employees in the forums giving false praises, and while some people sent them some money most never even got the product. BEWARE.

 

Naw, it doesn't spin. It fits snugly in the intake tubing, just inside the filter.

The one I have is from Turbonator, and I will certainly recommend AGAINST them. Theirs is very cheaply made by hand from the looks of it from simple sheet metal. I passed it around to my friends so they could see how it was made, and one made a very similar model with metal sheers and a ruler! In the case of the Turbonator, it's not worth what you pay based on product quality, but the Tornado might be a different story.

In the end, all I'm going for is the fastest, most fun MINI on the road. When I DO get around to dynoing my MINI, I will certainly try it with and without the thing. And You can count on me posting the results here.

Jason