Solution to oil consumption, vlv cover leak and more?
- Erik
Very interesting read. The VW FSI engine in my last car had a very similar issue. Fortunately, on that car at least, the affected portions are serviceable on that engine. The best solution I found, though, was to eliminate the PCV passage into the intake manifold and use only the pre-turbo port (always under vacuum) for all venting. Companies like BSH sell easy bolt on parts to take care of the process.
Looking at another thread on this forum, I noticed folks with this car are doing roughly the same. That plus a catch can would probably essentially permanently solve this problem, correct?
--Matt
Looking at another thread on this forum, I noticed folks with this car are doing roughly the same. That plus a catch can would probably essentially permanently solve this problem, correct?
--Matt
--Matt
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: Irvine CA
On turbo cars, there is a Crankcase breather system. In the valve cover lives a diaphragm valve that if leaks will cause full intake vacuum (or pressure?) to be applied to the crankase,resulting in excessive oil consumption, irreguler idle, or oilly smoke in the exhuast.
From the Bentley manual page 130-54.
From the Bentley manual page 130-54.
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
I can confirm that. CEL came on and it needed a 60,000 mile service anyways. Just got the call that my 'PCV valve' was going to cost me $300.
Whatever happened to blowing it clean with a can of GumOut!!?!
But after seeing the pictures here, it confirmed what my mechanic (non BMW dealer) was telling me.
I did like the other thread regarding using Seafoam to clean this and the buildup on the valves.
I've used Seafoam on some older motorcycles before and it's done a good job.Will probably go that route next time.
Val
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 906
Likes: 2
Im trying to find a solution to this oil consumption issue but i dont understand the tech parts of this thread nor do i understand where all these parts that cZar very explanatory shows (sorry guys im no tech enthusiast just a mini enthusiast driver).
Can someone explain in very simple words what do i tell the tech (dont speak english) to look for and what to do... oh and most importantly is oil consumption solved by these actions here?
Thanx guys!
Can someone explain in very simple words what do i tell the tech (dont speak english) to look for and what to do... oh and most importantly is oil consumption solved by these actions here?
Thanx guys!
there is a way, its in the manual
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 24
From: Port Orchard, WA.
Thank you so much for your kind appreciation Mike, there is so much misguided technical information throughout the automotive forum/blog chat world, that the automotive enthusiast believes what they read, from unknowledgeable jack of all trades, and master of none, internet guru's, and sadly this filters through to the dealer networks, as most of the dealer (so called technicians) read and blend what they read from the misguided automotive forum, chat blogs, into their computerised no logical thought process working schedule, to determine a fault.
This is now a concerning time, as you expect the manufacturing dealer to be competent when working on your car, however, the manufacture dealer, reads the forums, chats and blogs, I order to find answers, how concerning is that ?
I may not be able to stop this madness, but I can try to educate the masses with supplying correct information, on the many forums, chats and blogs, I contribute to, and the various Motorsport/Automotive industry platforms I am involved with, even at such high levels, there is much blinkered stupidity, like you wouldn't believe, Ive walked out of many a meeting and often do, laughing and shaking my head, at the unbelievable lack of basic engineering all thanks to this marvellous revolution in computerised controlled diagnostics, apparently if there is no fault code, there is not fault!
This is now a concerning time, as you expect the manufacturing dealer to be competent when working on your car, however, the manufacture dealer, reads the forums, chats and blogs, I order to find answers, how concerning is that ?
I may not be able to stop this madness, but I can try to educate the masses with supplying correct information, on the many forums, chats and blogs, I contribute to, and the various Motorsport/Automotive industry platforms I am involved with, even at such high levels, there is much blinkered stupidity, like you wouldn't believe, Ive walked out of many a meeting and often do, laughing and shaking my head, at the unbelievable lack of basic engineering all thanks to this marvellous revolution in computerised controlled diagnostics, apparently if there is no fault code, there is not fault!
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 37
From: Mission Viejo, CA
No but it did keep oil out of the turbo inlet and most oil in the throttle body inlet which is preferred in my opinion. Shortest route is best, it's going into the engine regardless.
Probably my #1 important thing right there. Keep oil out of the inlet, boost tubes, FMIC, and TBody inlet. I can deal with consumption, just add oil. Having to clean gunk off everything else, much more difficult.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
Hi It gives specs in the manual,
control valve
opens when pressure is less than 30mbar
and closes when pressure is greater than 30 mbar,
so test to those parameters'
A faulty crankcase breather valve causes significant deviations from the specified value:
Crankcase venntilation clogged: Ambient pressure+ 100mbar
Crankcase ventilation internal leak: ammbient pressure-170mbar.
Not sure what it all means, but there you all go
control valve
opens when pressure is less than 30mbar
and closes when pressure is greater than 30 mbar,
so test to those parameters'
A faulty crankcase breather valve causes significant deviations from the specified value:
Crankcase venntilation clogged: Ambient pressure+ 100mbar
Crankcase ventilation internal leak: ammbient pressure-170mbar.
Not sure what it all means, but there you all go
At 4500 ft altitude in Northern NV, the atmospheric pressure is about 5 inHg (169mbar) per my boost gage with the engine off. Since 30mbar is almost .5PSI, at my altitude, with the rear hose off, the front vent will never activate. The only pressure the PCV system sees is crankcase pressure.
So far, running 25 - 30PSI boost, with the rear hose connected, blows out the PCV system. This appears to be confirmed by Euler-Spiral in his Frankenturbo post #6 --- https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...the-track.html
I'm trying to work out a separate valve system to use the OEM PCV system AND 30PSI boost, but not having much success. I'm thinking something like a waste gate with a diaphragm actuator, but having trouble getting info on applicable waste gates. Any help is welcomed.
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Has anyone ever tried to create a baffle inside the cover where the vapor exits? From Czar's pics it appears that the passage is quite large and open. If one were to baffle this area, yet still allow gases to pass around it and into the PCV chambers, do you think this could help slow down the oil a bit? Other valve covers I've seen have a baffle inside the cover near where the PCV valves are located in the covers. Also, what do you think about filling this same passage way with stainless steel wool along with a baffle. It would still breathe and allow gases to escape. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Also, is Czar still on here?
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
Has anyone ever tried to create a baffle inside the cover where the vapor exits? From Czar's pics it appears that the passage is quite large and open. If one were to baffle this area, yet still allow gases to pass around it and into the PCV chambers, do you think this could help slow down the oil a bit? Other valve covers I've seen have a baffle inside the cover near where the PCV valves are located in the covers. Also, what do you think about filling this same passage way with stainless steel wool along with a baffle. It would still breathe and allow gases to escape. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Also, is Czar still on here?
Before attempting a fix, I suggest you find out the specific cause for your oil consumption. There is more than one cause, and many S owners have little to no oil consumption --- myself included, until I added excess boost.
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
I am losing oil thru the passenger side pcv outlet. I still think some type of baffle would help. As far as steel wool, it would be contained in a breathable netting above the baffle in the center PCV inlet in the cover. If you look at the shape, it has a lot of room in a rectangle area where gases go up and enter the PCV. I wouldn't let the material free-float under the cover. If you look at page one of the thread and the pics Czar posted, the center chamber has a lot of room. Some type of inert. breathable material could stop some of the oil. Just an idea. I do have an expensive catch can on the turbo side, but it does not catch much. Open to more ideas.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
I am losing oil thru the passenger side pcv outlet. I still think some type of baffle would help. As far as steel wool, it would be contained in a breathable netting above the baffle in the center PCV inlet in the cover. If you look at the shape, it has a lot of room in a rectangle area where gases go up and enter the PCV. I wouldn't let the material free-float under the cover. If you look at page one of the thread and the pics Czar posted, the center chamber has a lot of room. Some type of inert. breathable material could stop some of the oil. Just an idea. I do have an expensive catch can on the turbo side, but it does not catch much. Open to more ideas.
If your valve cover is known to be functioning properly, you might do a compression check and / or leak-down test. Excessive crankcase pressure could cause this oil consumption. To minimize oil in the manifold, try adding an OCC to the passenger side PCV port. Or, switch to a dual OCC. Altho, connecting to this port / hose isn't easy, it can be done. The plastic hose is really awkward to work with.
As for the steel wool, it's a patch, not a fix, and even with netting, not a patch I'd be willing to try.
Try sending Czar a PM --- he has a wealth of knowledge and might be willing to share with you.
Can anyone confirm this?
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
This only ensures part of the PCV system is working. There's still boost conditions and the manifold pressure range in-between. However, this is still a good indicator of PCV operation. Just don't honk-up the filler cap trying to prove a bad valve cover.
Last edited by JPMM; Jun 27, 2016 at 02:46 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
In theory, this CC vacuum should be enough to make removing the oil filler cap "difficult", probably not impossible. If you detect "blowing and sucking going on", you might be experiencing blow-by from a cold engine (ring seating), or if engine was warmed up, low compression. There's also a CC air inlet path from a dipstick that doesn't seal tightly.
Since you started this thread 4/2012, have you found an answer yet? If not, what is your specific problem? From other forums, I've seen a couple solutions where the PCV system has been effectively "bypassed" with different hose connections and minor equipment additions, resulting in minimal to no oil burning.