My transmission went out at 5,600 miles on at 02 cooper. I haven't seen anyone mention theirs going out the same as mine. Fifth gear began to whistle quietly at first. I wasn't sure where the noise was coming from at all. Then on my 130 mile trip to the dealer is got super loud about 30 miles from my home and boom. No fifth gear at all. Pull over run it through all the gears as they feel they are all their shifting. Pull back on the freeway and it shifts into fifth but nothing there. By that time 4th was whistling pretty loud too. My dealer never informed me what really happened to it. They told me they didn't know. All they do is send it back in and replace it with a new one.

 

I noticed everyone mentioning the seal failure and oil leaking. I had mine fail at 60 + degrees and no oil leaking at all. Just no longer a 5th gear.

 

The Midlands R65 gearbox has been around for about 20 years and was used in the Rover Metro and some new MG models. It has also been used in various rally racing applications. Around 130 hp and 130 lb/ft torque or so seems to be its sustained operational limit. This is within the parameters of the MC engine. It is known as an easy shifting, lightweight, and easily repaired box.

In the MINI it comes with a fully synthetic gear oil. Check out http://www.kroon-oil.com/uk/ and follow the links to lubes for the MINI.

MINI says the gearbox is sealed for life, but there are drain and fill plugs easily accessible (take off the left front wheel for easier access). The closest fluid matching the original fluid spec that is readily obtainable is Redline's MTL (the regular MTL, not the 90 MTL). If you are concerned about dealer/warranty issues then drain the original oil into a clean pan, bottle it up, and save it for the (extremely rare) event of having a gearbox problem - then, just drain the replacement fluid and put back in the original fluid. Clearly, regular changing of the gearbox fluid will increase the life of this particular gearbox just the same as it will any other gearbox.

As for the reported gearbox failures. First, any gearbox that looses its fluid will burn up and fail. A torn inner CV-joint boot or damaged seal can cause the loss of the gear oil. Almost all modern FWD transverse engine/transaxle cars are vulnerable to this. Such damage could be a defective part, but it could also be caused by an unlucky hit of some sharp road debris (I've seen cases like this). And, with only 2 liters of fluid in the gearbox, you are not likely to notice anything while cruising down the road until it is too late. Second, many FWD gearbox problems are ultimately due to a problem with the external selector mechanism and not due to any internal problem with the box itself. I'm willing to bet that many boxes replaced by MINI actually had no internal problem. Third, and following on this last point, no MINI mechanic will ever be able to tell you what was wrong. This is because they do not crack open the boxes to find out. They pack them up and send them back to BMW for inspection and rebuild.

Finally, as has been discussed in several earlier threads, two things: 1) the switch to a Getrag (actually, A PSA-derived) gearbox was due to MINI being the last customer for the R65 unit and buisiness changes at the Midlands plant; and 2) the reported problems seemed to be, for the most part, batch-related circa spring of 2002 build dates, with some speculation that sabotage may have been involved as this was a time of labor negotiations at the plant.

 

Wow... excellent information.

So, do you think my particular problem with the crunchy 2nd gear is due to an external issue? If so, should I take it back in and have them examine the external (shift) mechanism? One more question - by left front do you mean the driver's side?

I've ordered some MTL to replace the fluid in my tranny. After examining the MTL's specs and doing a little conversion, it would appear that the MTL is pretty darn close to the specs on the Kroon site.

In my experience, changing the tranny oil every year is the best preventative medicine - especially if the car is used for autocrossing and track days.

Thanks again!

 

My 5-speed is very nice,never jerky,long legs. At 20k miles in 10 months not one bad thing with the drive train,at even -47 one morning

 

Hi scobib,

Once in 2nd gear does it stay in gear OK (i.e., it doesn't jump out of gear under either acceleration or deceleration)? Does it crunch going into 2nd if you take it a bit slower on the upshift? Are you trying to shift quicker into 2nd when you are autocrossing vs. regular street driving? How does it feel downshifting from 3rd to 2nd? Crunching going into gear, but otherwise fine once in gear, generally makes one suspect the synchros for that gear. In and of itself that is not too big a deal; you can drive a car indefinitly with bad synchros as long as you take it easy when shifting. But, crunching could also be due to a clutch that is not quite fully disengaging, or is a bit slow on the disengagement. That situation can also make it seem harder to get into gear. If it ultimately goes into gear OK, and shifting from one gear to another presents no problem other than some crunching, then I'd say the problem is probably not in the external parts of the seletor mechanism. Try changing the gear oil. Try the Redline MTL first. If that doesn't quite fix it, maybe try a slightly thicker gear oil like the Redline 90 MTL. Sometimes gearboxes respond very well to just a fluid change, and maybe a slightly thicker (or sometimes thinner) fluid.

Oh, and yes left front = driver's side. Jack up the car, remove the front driver's side wheel, and you will easily see and have access to the drain and fill plugs on the gearbox. Let us know how it does after a fluid change.

 

I've finally been able to reproduce the problem.

At anything less that WOT acceleration, it will not crunch when shifting into 2nd gear. The crunching noise happens after fully depressing the clutch and moving the shifter from 1st to 2nd gear - but only when accelerating at WOT and only above 5k RPMs. It stays in 2nd gear just fine after the brief 'crunch'. Shift speed doesn't matter, whether you immediately throw it into 2nd gear after fully depressing the clutch or if you take your time - in fact, I think it sounds worse if you take your time.

If you accelerate at less than WOT and sneak up to the redline, no crunch. If you accelerate at WOT to 4500 RPM and shift, no crunch.

No crunching when downshifting at all - even when close to redline on threshold braking/downshifting.

We'll see if the tranny fluid makes a difference...

 

>>I've finally been able to reproduce the problem.
>>
>>At anything less that WOT acceleration, it will not crunch when shifting into 2nd gear. The crunching noise happens after fully depressing the clutch and moving the shifter from 1st to 2nd gear - but only when accelerating at WOT and only above 5k RPMs. It stays in 2nd gear just fine after the brief 'crunch'. Shift speed doesn't matter, whether you immediately throw it into 2nd gear after fully depressing the clutch or if you take your time - in fact, I think it sounds worse if you take your time.
>>
>>If you accelerate at less than WOT and sneak up to the redline, no crunch. If you accelerate at WOT to 4500 RPM and shift, no crunch.
>>
>>No crunching when downshifting at all - even when close to redline on threshold braking/downshifting.
>>
>>We'll see if the tranny fluid makes a difference...
>>

My 5-speed has the 2nd gear WOT near redline crunch. It makes you think you don't have the clutch pressed in hard enough even though you do. Basically I don't do highspeed 1st to 2nd shifts anymore. I doubt I'd ever be able to convince the dealer I was shifting properly. I can hear it now. "Your not shifting properly!"

Also I am not able to reach reverse on first try. Rowing through the gears doesn't help either. I have to press the clutch in twice. Or I can push real hard and it will pop into reverse. You have to push so hard I'm afraid I'll brake something.

Basically I have problems but not worth the trip to MINI. Hour drive and really don't want hear "Your not shifting properly!"

 

lot15: -47 degrees? Where in the world do you live. I will never complain about the weather again. P.S. -17K miles on my 5 speed with no issues (1/03 build).

 

For those that DID have their tranny replaced, how long did it take?

 

>>For those that DID have their tranny replaced, how long did it take?


I think it took 10 or 11 days to get my car back after it went out.

 

Dadgum!

Most people on Mini2 have reported 2-3 days... ugh.

Maybe I should re-schedule my appointment... heh.

 

>>Dadgum!
>>
>>Most people on Mini2 have reported 2-3 days... ugh.
>>
>>Maybe I should re-schedule my appointment... heh.

I am sure it depends if they have one there at the dealer already. They had to get one shipped in for my car.

 

>>lot15: -47 degrees? Where in the world do you live. I will never complain about the weather again. P.S. -17K miles on my 5 speed with no issues (1/03 build).
>>
>> Manitoba on the big lake on the right of the map

 

sorry what is WOT :smile:

 

>sorry what is WOT

That would be - Wide Open Throttle.

Hoo Hoo ...... my favorite.

 

Hey lot 15, How do you find your mini in snow? No, its not a joke, I mean driving through the snow? What tire and wheel combo do you use? We are about a week away from a decision and my wife's only concern is whether or not its a snow car!

Thanks from the western Great White North - Annual 6" May snow dump a week ago but nice and green now.

 

>>For those that DID have their tranny replaced, how long did it take?

I was driving a Focus for 10 days, but it was over thanksgiving, so the shop was closed for 4 days.

 

UPDATE:

Well, cross yo fingahs people!

I replaced the tranny oil with Red Line MTL last night - the factory oil WAS dirty (but not smelly, and it hadn't fully broken down yet), and both magnetic plugs had shavings on them. About the amount of shavings I would expect from a brand new tranny being broken in.

Changing it is SUPER simple. Jack up the driver's side, remove the driver's front wheel. You'll see two plugs, an upper and a lower. Both take a 17 mm socket. Remove the upper one first (fill), and then the lower (drain) - I'll warn you NOW that the oil is going to come ROCKETING out of the drain hole, so be prepared with your oil catch pan!!! Wipe off the plugs, wipe off the plug holes, reinstall the drain plug. You can snake a long piece of tubing from the top of the car into the fill hole. Add slowly - when the oil begins to weep out of the top hole, thread the fill plug in (takes about 2 quarts, capacity is 2.1, but I'm sure there was still a bit of the old stuff left in there). Ensure both plugs are tight - what torque? I dunno - just 'tight' is fine, IMHO, but don't go crazy.

But now the good news - the godawful crunching stopped. And, the car shifts BETTER NOW than it did when it was brand new! Goes into all the gears, especially reverse, better than when I first got it.

I'm knocking on wood AND keeping my fingers crossed - the first real test will come on Saturday, so we'll see!

If any of you aren't satisfied with the way your car shifts, you'd be amazed at the difference with some Red Line MTL... I'm not sure if the Getrag takes the same 70W80, though.

 

Thanks for the report. Let us know how Saturday goes. I am seriously thinking about doing the same for mine. I love Redline stuff.

Andy

 

Hey, sounds good, scobib! I'll be replacing my gearbox oil with MTL once I have a few more miles on my new MC. I've used it, and seen it used, with good results on other cars. Let us know how it shifts once fully warmed up and under auto-x conditions.

 

>>Hey lot 15, How do you find your mini in snow? No, its not a joke, I mean driving through the snow? What tire and wheel combo do you use? We are about a week away from a decision and my wife's only concern is whether or not its a snow car!
>>
>>Thanks from the western Great White North - Annual 6" May snow dump a week ago but nice and green now.
>>
>>15" 7holes with all seasons.The MC was fine in the winter.I commute160 kms(100 miles) return 5days a week.Play on the weekends on the back roads,great fun.I may get snow tires,not sure yet.The car also started no problem,every time,but now MINI has a block heater ,so I'm going to get one at my next service,$80 Cnd.

 

So, the MTL in the tranny worked exceptionally well, even under autocross conditions this weekend (90 degree ambient temp, asphalt tarmac, 4 hard runs bac-to-back at around 103 seconds each time).

Yes, I know what some are saying - 103 seconds! Our local BMWCCA chapter's "autocross" courses are more like miniature road courses.

Anyhoo, it's still shifting like a dream with the MTL - and no grinding!

 

Thanks for the report scobib. I'm going to the track on Friday. I'll change mine this afternoon.

 

OK Scobib, What's the trick to getting off the top plug. That sucker is gorilla'd in there, and awkward.