Bad Gas
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
your problem is most likely being caused by dirty injectors and/or deposits on the intake valves. i'd say a fuel injection/induction cleaning service will fix the problem. MINI just came out with a new bulletin on this, see if it applies to your car.
If the problem was carbon build up, there would be other symptoms rather than just at cold start. I know and the tech knows that what we have here is a failing high pressure fuel pump. Another very common problem. The MINI reps want to go through the trouble tree trying every possible cure starting with the cheapest first. A re-program, fuel system cleaning, and then at some point replace the pump.
Last night, when started, the system threw a "hard code". The problem is getting worse as this is the first time I have had problems at start up twice in one day. At best, this scenario is going to result in three trips to the dealer for the same problem. In this day, that is ridiculous. If anyone wants to know why MINI has the worst CSI in the industry, here it is. It is not the product. The product is wonderful. It is MINI's and ultimately BMW's stubborn refusal to admit it could be their problem and trying to shift the blame to some outside influence like the fuel suppliers.
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: chicago
just had my mini in 3 weeks ago for a check engine light(misfire #3 cyl) they could not find any problem at that time so they reset comp. 1 week later check eng light back on (misfire #1 & #3 cyls) took car back and they performed compression tests all checked within specs,tested fuel within spec at 10% ethanol,found intermittant hp fuel pump replaced pump, found fuel injectors below specs and carboned,cleaned and swapped injectors to dif cylinders problem followed,replaced 2 fuel injectors and engine has been running fine since, also had them change warping hood scoop at this time and address death rattle ,while more common during cold weather starts i have been able to duplicate in warm weather by starting car in morning move car 10 feet shut down and restart 3 to 4 hrs later.they seemed to know about this procedure and they replaced the tensioner. all in all happy with their handling of the proplems.
First thing this morning, I took the MINI back to the dealer with the check engine light on. The codes showed three instances of cylinder mis-fire. They kept the car and gave me back the original loaner.
Late this afternoon, they called and said the high pressure fuel pump was failing and they would probably have the car repaired tomorrow. When I originally presented the car for service, it basically had a full tank of fuel. It has been driven back and forth to the dealer since, a total of about forty miles. Obviously they must have decided the fuel with a purported 22% ethanol content was not really the problem and it was in fact a hardware problem.
When I receive the CSI questionnaire, it will be impossible to mark completely satisfied. I resent having to take several hours out of my life running back and forth at the whim of some engineer who wanted to blame the problem on fuel rather than addressing the real problem. I knew, the Service Adviser knew, and the technician knew it was in reality a fuel pump from the beginning.
Late this afternoon, they called and said the high pressure fuel pump was failing and they would probably have the car repaired tomorrow. When I originally presented the car for service, it basically had a full tank of fuel. It has been driven back and forth to the dealer since, a total of about forty miles. Obviously they must have decided the fuel with a purported 22% ethanol content was not really the problem and it was in fact a hardware problem.
When I receive the CSI questionnaire, it will be impossible to mark completely satisfied. I resent having to take several hours out of my life running back and forth at the whim of some engineer who wanted to blame the problem on fuel rather than addressing the real problem. I knew, the Service Adviser knew, and the technician knew it was in reality a fuel pump from the beginning.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,602
Likes: 107
From: Arizona
Today, June 8, they called and told me the MINI was ready for pickup. When I arrived, they told me they had re-programmed the complete vehicle including the CAS. There was no mention of the 22% ethanol fuel they felt it had in it. We will see if it will now start and run when engine is cold.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Yeah, that's kind of the lesson to learn here. Extended warranties are high profit margin sales to begin with.
And a warranty means nothing if you have to constantly be back at the dealer under the whim of their "process flowchart." Especially if you get no loaner car, or have to pull teeth for one.
A warranty is only as good as the fine print.
And a warranty means nothing if you have to constantly be back at the dealer under the whim of their "process flowchart." Especially if you get no loaner car, or have to pull teeth for one.
A warranty is only as good as the fine print.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 1
From: New Brighton, Mn
I have a 2009 MCS Conv. that I bought for my wife. It is ten months old with just short of 4,000 miles. The last few days, when started the first time during the day, it runs on one or two cylinders, sounds like a diesel, and smokes like a freight train. After about 60 seconds it runs fine and works the rest of the day.
I called the local dealer and made an appointment for service on Monday. The first question asked was "What kind of fuel do you use?". In this case it has been exclusively Shell Premium. Obviously the Service Adviser has been trained to ask this question.
I spent 42 years of my life in the auto business owning and operating dealerships of everything from Fiat to Rolls Royce. I have seen cars sputter, ping, and get poor mileage from inferior gas. I can count on two hands the number of cars that would not start or started with major problems caused by bad gas. Those had dirt or water in the tank and it was a major operation to remove the tank, clean it, and clear the lines. It wasn't just a poor quality of gas or a little too much ethanol content.
My question is simply this: What started Mini and BMW on the road to blaming seemingly all drive ability issues on fuel? There are a lot of very exotic vehicles that I have owned where fuel was never mentioned. Certainly not the first question when reporting a problem. Why do we as consumers accept this attempt by them to dodge their own problems? Reading this Forum shows this to be a common response in MINI Dealerships but not at most others. WHY?
I called the local dealer and made an appointment for service on Monday. The first question asked was "What kind of fuel do you use?". In this case it has been exclusively Shell Premium. Obviously the Service Adviser has been trained to ask this question.
I spent 42 years of my life in the auto business owning and operating dealerships of everything from Fiat to Rolls Royce. I have seen cars sputter, ping, and get poor mileage from inferior gas. I can count on two hands the number of cars that would not start or started with major problems caused by bad gas. Those had dirt or water in the tank and it was a major operation to remove the tank, clean it, and clear the lines. It wasn't just a poor quality of gas or a little too much ethanol content.
My question is simply this: What started Mini and BMW on the road to blaming seemingly all drive ability issues on fuel? There are a lot of very exotic vehicles that I have owned where fuel was never mentioned. Certainly not the first question when reporting a problem. Why do we as consumers accept this attempt by them to dodge their own problems? Reading this Forum shows this to be a common response in MINI Dealerships but not at most others. WHY?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,602
Likes: 107
From: Arizona
I had to bring my 2009 S Clubman in recently for engine light and they blamed bad gas, i put in a can of the techron and started using Chevron gas and it ran fine until I drove it from California to Oklahoma. When I got there it started in again... at the Oklahoma dealership they checked it and found a bad hp fuel pump, replaced it and it's running fine all week.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
This thread describes to a 'T' the issues I'm having with the '07 MCS I purchased the day after Thanksgiving. It's been back to the MINI dealer twice now, multiple days out of service, and they keep coming back to "bad gas."
Well, as of the beginning of this week, I am out of warranty. I have half a mind to believe that this was part of their process; drag this ******** out until I would have no choice but to come out of pocket.
First car I've ever actively regretted purchasing.
What's the endgame if I decide that I just want to purchase the stupid fuel pump and swap it out myself?
Well, as of the beginning of this week, I am out of warranty. I have half a mind to believe that this was part of their process; drag this ******** out until I would have no choice but to come out of pocket.
First car I've ever actively regretted purchasing.
What's the endgame if I decide that I just want to purchase the stupid fuel pump and swap it out myself?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 1
From: New Brighton, Mn
This thread describes to a 'T' the issues I'm having with the '07 MCS I purchased the day after Thanksgiving. It's been back to the MINI dealer twice now, multiple days out of service, and they keep coming back to "bad gas."
Well, as of the beginning of this week, I am out of warranty. I have half a mind to believe that this was part of their process; drag this ******** out until I would have no choice but to come out of pocket.
First car I've ever actively regretted purchasing.
What's the endgame if I decide that I just want to purchase the stupid fuel pump and swap it out myself?
Well, as of the beginning of this week, I am out of warranty. I have half a mind to believe that this was part of their process; drag this ******** out until I would have no choice but to come out of pocket.
First car I've ever actively regretted purchasing.
What's the endgame if I decide that I just want to purchase the stupid fuel pump and swap it out myself?
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
Ironically, after my last post, I left the office to get in the MINI and drive home. Except it wouldn't start at first, and sat chugging and stumbling and flashing the CEL at me. I called the dealership and they told me to bring it down. Again. So here I am - again - in a loaner.
I've had the car for all of a month.
Would not, Have not, Will not go to a Mini dealer for service.
It's very insulting to have a young man who graduated from UTI 3 weeks ago tell me that I need $1,200.00 worth of service when all I had was a spark plug wire come off.
Would be nice if MINI was not under BMW's thumb.
Went through this when I had my 2002.
It's very insulting to have a young man who graduated from UTI 3 weeks ago tell me that I need $1,200.00 worth of service when all I had was a spark plug wire come off.
Would be nice if MINI was not under BMW's thumb.
Went through this when I had my 2002.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 1
From: New Brighton, Mn
I did; they said that it is not under recall, but is subject to a 100K+ mile warranty if the fuel pump fails. At this point, they're still giving me the runaround about the gas.
Ironically, after my last post, I left the office to get in the MINI and drive home. Except it wouldn't start at first, and sat chugging and stumbling and flashing the CEL at me. I called the dealership and they told me to bring it down. Again. So here I am - again - in a loaner.
I've had the car for all of a month.
Ironically, after my last post, I left the office to get in the MINI and drive home. Except it wouldn't start at first, and sat chugging and stumbling and flashing the CEL at me. I called the dealership and they told me to bring it down. Again. So here I am - again - in a loaner.
I've had the car for all of a month.
2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
This is unrelated but seems like a common problem for any manufacturer.
My old 2000 M coupe (or any z3 for that matter) has a notorious problem that can affect any owner. Basically the rear differential would separate from the trunk floor. Design flaw that BMW wouldn't acknowledge and to this day doesn't.
Same thing with the fuel pump issue in the N40 motors. Took forever and someone suing BMW for them to issue a recall. They just don't want to admit fault.
My old 2000 M coupe (or any z3 for that matter) has a notorious problem that can affect any owner. Basically the rear differential would separate from the trunk floor. Design flaw that BMW wouldn't acknowledge and to this day doesn't.
Same thing with the fuel pump issue in the N40 motors. Took forever and someone suing BMW for them to issue a recall. They just don't want to admit fault.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
My dealer called me this morning and told me that now, finally, the car has thrown the magical 2880 code. They're still jumping through hoops to convince MINI of what I've known all along, but chances are improving for them replacing my fuel pump.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 663
Likes: 11
From: Maryland
"Bad" gas is just BMW's attempt to not fix their cars. Call their bluff, demand the car be fixed. "Bad" as in old and turning to varnish, has not been a problem for 20 years. Even the water that we used to get is not a problem with the high ethanol. We now have things called fuel filters, so no dirt plugging up our jets. Just one more reason I will never buy another BMW product. They train their service people to treat us like idiots.
As far as the brand? Well it is all the same gas until it has the additives mixed, usually in the truck. If the Mini won't run on any of the available gas for sale that meets their octane rating ( only listed requirement), then they have failed in "suitability for use" business law clause and should replace or buy back the car as it is unsuitable for the use they sold it for.
(I have run Shell for 26,000 miles from new. No problem.)
As far as the brand? Well it is all the same gas until it has the additives mixed, usually in the truck. If the Mini won't run on any of the available gas for sale that meets their octane rating ( only listed requirement), then they have failed in "suitability for use" business law clause and should replace or buy back the car as it is unsuitable for the use they sold it for.
(I have run Shell for 26,000 miles from new. No problem.)
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, Va
Yeah, i took mine in the other day for really bad MPG's and they said that one of my spark plugs was broken as well as a cracked water pump. They tried pulling the ol "bad gas" routine on me saying that i had to get my gas from a list "top tier" gas company. I told them thats nice and all but its under warranty and that the only thing i was told about gas was to use 91 or above. If i knew i could only get gas from certain places i would have never in a million years bought that car. He said he replace all my plugs as a courtesy and i need to stick with the recommended stations. I laughed and told them thanks and if it happened again that they will fix it as long as its under warranty and i didn't willfully break anything or i wouldnt hesitate to take it to court.....
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
Picked my MINI up this evening. Dealer replaced the HPFP and the sparkplugs, as they said they were fouled and the gap was out of spec.
Now - I bought this car used and have every reason to think that the previous owner(s) did squat to maintain it. What am I looking at to have the carbon build-up that I'm sure is in the valvetrain cleaned up properly? Or should I just start a Seaform regimen at 5K intervals?
I put a lot of miles on my commuters in a year; I need them to last.
Cheers.
Now - I bought this car used and have every reason to think that the previous owner(s) did squat to maintain it. What am I looking at to have the carbon build-up that I'm sure is in the valvetrain cleaned up properly? Or should I just start a Seaform regimen at 5K intervals?
I put a lot of miles on my commuters in a year; I need them to last.
Cheers.
"Bad" gas is just BMW's attempt to not fix their cars.
They train their service people to treat us like idiots.
As far as the brand? Well it is all the same gas until it has the additives mixed, usually in the truck. If the Mini won't run on any of the available gas for sale that meets their octane rating ( only listed requirement), then they have failed in "suitability for use" business law clause and should replace or buy back the car as it is unsuitable for the use they sold it for.
They train their service people to treat us like idiots.
As far as the brand? Well it is all the same gas until it has the additives mixed, usually in the truck. If the Mini won't run on any of the available gas for sale that meets their octane rating ( only listed requirement), then they have failed in "suitability for use" business law clause and should replace or buy back the car as it is unsuitable for the use they sold it for.
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
i thought if it was bad fuel bmw/mini will give you a sample of what they pull from the tank. My case was bad gas from a local exxon station. It killed my car and it would not start.
when i looked at what was in the bottle they gave me it was like half water and half gas. smelled odd too...
honestly the only reason i trusted them was the fact they had 4 other bmw's flatbedded in for the same issue. exxon station paid for all damages in the end.
when i looked at what was in the bottle they gave me it was like half water and half gas. smelled odd too...
honestly the only reason i trusted them was the fact they had 4 other bmw's flatbedded in for the same issue. exxon station paid for all damages in the end.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, Va
Yeah, i said to test the tank that was in there now and he said it was probably "bad gas" from the past......I laughed at that also.....I do believe he knows i'm not gonna fall for this ******** but I think he is trained to go that route.....