Ok,

The dealer has called and my car is, done.

I will post my hopefully closing comments tommorow. Wish me luck.

 

Well it is good to see that not all service departments and service personel are as bad as the one I have been dealing with. It is also nice to see that not all FSR are as uncaring and disinterested as the one I had the miss future to meet.

DSO72, I would hate to have the engine in my car replaced, but I would really love to have this nightmare with the constant knocking taken care of.

I just don't know what else I can do since the Mini FSR refused to even try to fix my knocking problem. He acknoledged the knocking noise, but had no idea what was causing it. He also had absolutely no desire/interest in trying to do ANYTHING to try to fix it.

Gmack, I really hope that your car is fixed. I know all to well how terrible this situation is to live with.

Phill, This issue does seem to be an issue with the S model.

94SwiftGT

 

Having been wrong about this several times already, I'm going to be a little cautious this time. First observations are very good though.

In the 4 or 5 attempts I have made to recreate it, have been unsuccessful.

The first few taps if you will, still can be heard. This could be anything from the blower blade meshing that Randy mentioned to a normal intake or boost related sound. I don't hear anything after that and since my car has had this issue all spring/summer, I will presume this was always there and is normal.

My SA made me promise not to blame her if v38 introduced a new issue or made my car worse, so I won't.

From my 3 times driving the car I would have to say my yo-yo has been greatly improved. I did however see the car nearly stall at a light this morning. I could feel a funny idle before and a brief blip of the throttle cleaned it right up. This morning though the rpms dropped to nearly 500 rpm and I felt pretty sure it would have stalled if I hadn't intervened. We'll see, hopefully that one will be addressed soon.

I must say this visit to MCM went very well. Same players new game, it would appear to be so. I was given prompt, friendly, fare and professional treatment. My car would appear to be have been given the same. Having my car delivered by and returned by my new SA was a nice change. The HB was replaced, the wipers were replaced, the wind noise addressed (likely resolved but I haven't been able to test it) and v38 was loaded. I believe it's 38.1 since they choose not to load the first cd38 they received.

I would think if you suffer from this noise it is time to print out at least the contact info for our 3 dealers, and make a appointment. My SA will surely be able to recognize this problem in the future, hopefully yours will too.

 

Gmack - glad things are going well! I've noticed, as you mention, that the first few taps can still be heard. Mine are MUCH softer than before, however. Pretty easy to miss, and may have been there all along. I will post again if anything changes.

Best - Bodinski

PS: anyone need an nrp exhaust? please see the marketplace - thanks!

 

Congrats gmack! My harmonic balancer was not replaced. They did readjust the belt tensioner and that seemed to reduce the noise when the engine was hot but, the tapping sound was still present when the engine was cold.

 

SwiftGt,

Is there any possibility that you could request another FSR from MINI? Maybe even request the same FSR that has made the decision to change the parts on the above cars or even the Engine change?

I know you've already started the lemon process but this might be last ditch.....

 

Yeah,

There has to be one reasonable person at the dealership or in the BMW/MINUSA regional management food chain that would find replacing your HB better than a court battle. Bee's with honey usually works for me.

Having a out of state dealer fix it and sending the bill for the hotel/lodging gas and expenses to the dealer or corporate offices, would seem better than loosing a otherwise good car. Unless this experience has completely ruined the ownership relationship as it nearly did for me.

This one should be a no brainer for them, it is not caused by owner abuse or modifications to the vehicle in anyway. It is a flat out defective part. Likely not a extremely expensive one either. The one used to replace my original may not be any better, and could someday fail as well, time will tell.

 

Day two. Looking good.

The recent higher temps have left the car feeling a little less powerful, but that's not surprising.

It would appear that v38 improves throttle response as reported. My usual blip of the throttle for down shifts is now too long and sends the revs way higher than I needed. Need to re-adjust.

The test drive in Mazdaspeed Miata leads me to believe my suspected tranny problems were actualy a problem between the seat and the shifter.

 

I wrote MINIUSA at their contact us web page and referred them to this thread. Following is the response I received today:



Hi ****, thanks for writing MINI.

I'm sorry to read of your concern with a potential problem with the MINI. I have reviewed the postings, but I can't offer a solution from my location and we aren't technically trained. Your MINI dealer is best equipped to help with this concern, as they have the special tools needed to properly inspect, diagnose and repair the MINI. They have other avenues they can pursue if they need further technical assistance. Sorry, MINI can't provide a repair procedure until the cause of the problem is found, once that is done, MINI will be able to address and repair it. Please be assured that the quality of our vehicles receives our constant attention. Thanks again for contacting MINI. Please don't hesitate to let us know if you have any further questions and/or concerns.

LET'S MOTOR.
Jen Schuelke
MINI Customer Relations and Services
Representative
866.ASK.MINI (275-6464)



This doesn't quite seem to be "stock response number 7" but also doesn't appear to be fully invested in getting to the bottom of the problem.

- Phill

 

Phill,

That was a good idea to try to have MiniUSA look into this thread, but their response doesn't really seem to help.

What do you do when the dealer service department WONT address the problem. Then they aren't the right people to help.

I have gone so far as to have the FSR look at my car, and he simply said that the knocking/hammering noise is a charateristic of the Cooper S.

I had called MiniUSA, and their verbal response was very much like your email response. I told them the problem I was having with the service department, and they told me there was nothing they could do.

That just adds to the frustration I have. I have tried to be patient, and I have tried to give the dealer as much assistance in diagnosing this problem as I can.

I tried to get the FSR to agree to change the harmonic damper as that seems like the most likely cause, but he refused.

94SwiftGT

PS: Gmack, has you knocking been fixed since they changed the harmonic balance.

 

94SwiftGT,

Gone is the obvious tapping/knocking sound that was easily reproduced during acceleration.

Being, a skeptic though, I still wonder if this fix is like treating the symptom, and not curing the desease.

I can still here a funny rattling sound upon startup. This could be dreaded piston slap as mentioned above or something intirely un-related. I am not going to worry about it for now. I admit I was realy hoping this was in fact the balancer I was hearing, since it's still there, it is not.

I can at least pass other motorist or present the car for sale without feeling ashamed.

So I would be suprised if your car didn't benefit greatly from the replacement. I have not been able to make the car sound anything like it did since picking it up on Tuesday.

My SA told me that her master techcnician was willing to agree that some form of seal on the balancer could in fact fail. I unfourtanetly was so excited to get my car back, I failed to push for more detail.

Good luck. If someone has access or the time, what does a new balancer cost ? If the motors making this noise don't in fact have a "internal" issue that is known already to MINIUSA/BMW, (that they will attempt to call a "characteristic" like the stumble and yo-yo) why are they not willing to try the harmonic balancer on 94SwiftGT's and others cars ? I'll let you form your own opinion.

 

Well the knocking noise coming from my engine has finally been fixed.

I would like to thank the staff at South Motors in Miami for their invaluable assistance in getting this problem corrected. On my first visit to South Motors they treated me very well, and were able to determine the cause of the knocking noise. They ordered the parts and scheduled an appointment to have the parts installed as quickly as possible. When I went next to have the parts installed again I was treated very well, and the job was expedited to allow me to be on my way.

South Motors was able in 2 visits (2 days) what the service dept. in Ft. Lauderdale was totally unwilling or incapable of doing in multiple visits.

I am glad that the problem has finally been fixed, but this whole experience leaves me with quite a few questions.

Why was South Motors able to diagnose and fix the problem in 2 visits, and the Ft. Lauderdale dealer was not able to do anything to address the problem in 4 visits and over 2 months time?

Why was the service dept. in Ft. Lauderdale so unwilling to even acknowledge the problem when it was very easily detected?

I had demonstrated the problem for 6-8 service people at the Ft. Lauderdale dealer’s service department.

Why did the service dept. in Ft. Lauderdale not try to determine the cause of the noise, and continually try to convince me that my aftermarket exhaust was the cause? It was latter verified that the exhaust was not the cause.

Why did the service dept. in Ft. Lauderdale continually dismiss the problem even though I had not accepted their lame excuses, and had taken the problem up directly with the service manager?

Why wouldn’t the Ft. Lauderdale service manager even consider exchanging the harmonic damper after I had told him about multiple people that had posted online that it was the cause of the noise?

Why did the service manager take this problem so lightly even after I had explained my concerns to him on multiple occasions?

Is the service staff at South Motors better trained or more competent than the staff at the Ft. Lauderdale service staff?

It seems they are as they were able to fix a problem that the Ft. Lauderdale service dept. couldn’t or wouldn’t.

Why was customer service person at MiniUSA seemingly so unconcerned when I contacted them regarding the lack of service I was getting from the Ft. Lauderdale service dept.?

Why didn’t the customer service person at MiniUSA attempt to get me some help from another service dept. when it was very clear that I was very dissatisfied with the complete lack of assistance I was receiving from the Ft. Lauderdale service dept.?

Why is it that the BMWNA field service engineer seemed to have determined that he would not be willing to address the problem even before I had spoken with him?

Almost from the time he was introduced to me he was telling me things that it couldn’t be but never provided anything that it could be.

Why was the BMWNA field services engineer not willing to try replacing the harmonic damper when it seemed like the most likely cause of the knocking noise?

If he had at least tried replacing the damper I wouldn’t have had to hire an attorney to take me through the Lemon Law procedure.

It seems that it would have been in BMWNA’s best interest to at least try replacing the harmonic damper, as that would have cost them less than the legal fees will be. It would have also helped to restore some faith in MiniUSA that I had lost over the 2 ½ month’s that I have had to endure this nightmare.

This whole experience has been taken me from a very outspoken advocate for Mini/BMW and left me total disillusioned.

I now feel that I have no option but to tell people about the terrible service that I have received, and the number of times my car has been taken in for repairs. I hadn’t realized that my car had been in for repairs 16 times for over 45 days in only 18-months. Had the knocking problem been taken seriously by the Ft. Lauderdale service dept., I wouldn’t have had to make note of this fact.

94SwiftGT

 

94swiftGT

I think we would be very interested in hearing what the dealer in Miami did to cure the problem. Quote from the service order with part numbers if possible. I have my dealer checking into it as my car makes the same noise. FWIW, mine is an 04 S with 9500 miles and a JCW kit.

Thanks!

 

So what was the problem that was solved 94swiftGT? My 03 S has the same problem and also the window problem and the knocking when the clutch is not engauged. So Im going in for an extended stay to say the least, but I love this car and wouldn't give it up for anything in its price range. Hopefully all thease problems will be fixed in one visit. Does anyone recomend or not recomend any northern California dealers?

 

Uncle_John,

The knocking noise is caused by a bad/defective harmonic damper. I don't have the service recept handy, but I will post the part numbers Saturday.

It is quite possible that the harmonic damper going bad is only a symptom of a bigger problem in the engine, but changing the harmonic damper has fixed the knocking noise for now. My car had only 22,000 miles on it when I first noticed the knocking noise.

We the Mini owners need to take this issue very seriously as it has the potential to cost us (Mini Owners) a lot of money if a problem within the engine surfaces after the warranty expires.

This is one of my main concerns, it makes me question the long term reliability of my Mini.

UberDogg, I used to feel the same way as you. I couldn't imagine not owning a Mini, but this experience has been SO BAD that I feel I don't have any choice but to get away from the terrible dealer service, poor customer service (MiniUSA), and poor product quality.

03DrkSlvrS

 

Thanks a bunch. I do take it seriously and don't want my Works car to shake itself apart 5000 miles after the warranty expires!

Sorry that you have had to lead the charge on this one.

 

Uncle_John

Here are the part numbers for the harmonic damper and the belt that you requested.

These are the parts that were replaced that fixed the knocking noise (for now) after only 6 trips and 2-1/2 months.

Harmonic Damper - 1 11-23-7-514-461
Serpintine Belt - 01 11-28-7-520-199
94SwiftGT

 

Could someone please explain this to me:

It was mentioned several times that the engine might be knocking/pinging.
The thing that I do not quite understand is that the engine management should automatically retard the ignition to stop this. The reason for using 93/94 gas is the engine management can now advance ignition more before ping is detected.
If the car is constantly pinging shouldn't there be a problem with the sensor/engine management?

Alex

 

The problem that is the primary focus of this thread is not pinging. Several have suggested it as a possible cause, but the source has been proven to lie elsewhere.

 

I wonder why this thread died? Did everyone's problem get fixed?
I just started hearing this on my car a few weeks ago. Now I at least have some ammunition to go to my delaer with.

 

Morales,

Yes, mine got fixed. The dealer basically ran out of options and tried the Harmonic Balancer. The problem was gone. As mentioned the first few taps, if you will could still be heard, after that it was nice and quiet.

I did print contact info for Bolinski's and TomsCooperS delaers and give them to my dealer. I doubt they ever called them. I would suggest printing this thread and the delaer info for your dealer. Hopefully it will save you and the dealer some time.

 

Your right Alex. I probably lead to some of that confusion. My apologies.

The only reason I thought it might be pinging was that my car had the pulley and the 93 octane Shark at the time. This could have possibly been enough to create a knocking condition beyond the ECU's and knock sensors ability. It of course did not, at least in my case. I needed a new Harmonic Balancer. As soon as I got one, the problem never returned.

 

My '04 MCS w/ 12K miles continues to exhibit the tapping/ clicking sound which has been present since I first realized the noise after following the factory recommened break-in procedure. Since that time, I've had my dealer look into these symptoms twice. In the first visit, feedback was simply that they were unable to reproduce. However, in the most recent visit feedback was a little different in that yes, they heard the sound and it's not the first time owners had expressed concern but that they've driven others with the same sound; it's likely normal with the MCS and not anything to with which one should be concerned unless the noise gets worse.

Obviously, it appears that this may not be an isolated issue; however, it is also apparent that it may take greater effort to get the issue identified and resolved relative to other maintenance concerns. I would be interested to understand if there are any perceived issues with the harmonic balancer which may lead to drivetrain damage or if this is merely an annoying noise? It's one thing to be frustrated to hear your new MINI clattering away under acceleration, it's another to know that some damage may accompany said sound.

 

If this tapping is only heard under load, with the windows down, after 3,000 rpm. Push for a Harmonic Balancer replacement.

 

Well.........it's taken me the better part of 2 hours to read this thread(I'm a slow reader). A couple of you have had to bear the brunt of the work and frustration so that the rest of us "should" have an easier time. Thank you:smile: .

The sound has best been described as the noise that a trading card made when you clipped it to the frame of your bike and the spokes clicked the card as the wheel went around. That's my sound exactly.

I have had the smaller 17% pulley installed and a set of Nology plug wires and colder plugs installed which I thought may have contributed to the noise. Thankfully not!

Armed with this info, I will "gently encourage" my service dept to replace the Harmonic Balancer first.

And lets all remember, that this is still a new car (developement wise). There are going to be some growing pains, as the previous owners can attest to, but we need to be patient and somewhat understanding in getting these issues resolved. Being negative about the product isn't going to help long term. Problems with the service dept or service advisor are no reason the negatively advertise the brand. IMHO .

Thanks again to all that have contributed to this thread.