>>So what is the advantage of having a slick 6-speed manual shifter in urban bumper to bumper rush hour traffic?
>>
>>Sure you can grow muscles in your left foot/leg....and then what else?


My argument would then go to the point of what's the advantage of having a supercharger in urban bumber to bumber rush hour traffic? I still stick by my guns... MC in the city, MCS for the open roads... The only MINI's i've spotted where I live have all been MCS's, and we have a lot of open roads out here... now if I lived in a much more urban area, I would expect to see more MC's... as a matter of fact, if I did mostly city driving, I'd probally have an Indi Blue MC with a CVT in the garage, instead of my Chili Red MCS w/a 6 speed...

Rocketboy_X

 

I also agree with you that a lot of us are looking forward to having a S with a CVT transmission. I have shifted many,many,many times, I have also gone mach 2 in a Navy fighter many times. So the CVT is not just for a slow driver, its for those of us who like to make are own decisions on how we drive, slow or fast. I want the option.

 

>>
>>
>>I test drove the automatic and it just lacked something. I asked to test drive the 5 speed manual--my husband was shocked. I test drove it and loved it. (I also stalled it and did a few nice loud gear grinds) I was scared to drive the car for the first 24 hours and now 9 days later, I am practally a pro! It isn't as hard as it seems it is just a matter of timing and coordination. I also went to the dealership several times before my car came and "test drove" their manuals to start to get a feel for it before my car ended up needing a new clutch!

 

>>On a side note......the car is technically not AUTOMATIC.....it also has a tiptronic mode, which is enough fun for me on the highway. Very good pick-up....I was surprised! I am one of those people that really lack in the manual tranny driving department, plus I live in the city. I could not have asked for a better car! :smile: >>

Hmmm..you like sports but can't drive a stick? Oh well...

 

Ah, what bliss life would be if a car could be invented that was both a stick AND an auto, clutch and all. Flip a switch, the clutch gets disengages, and if you didn't want to shift, you didn't have to. One of our forklifts is sortof like that, it's a stick with a torque converter. Very weird.

Like THAT would ever happen.

Personally, I would like to see the US move more to stickshift, but it'll probably never happen. Its always worth the effort to learn, however, you never know when you'll need it, the best way to learn is to find a driveway with a hill. If you can stop and take off smoothly without rolling back a half mile, you're gold. If you can balance the car by riding the clutch, you're platinum (just don't do that for too long... can burn out the clutch.)

I've always defended sticks for a few reasons.

1. Safer in the snow or slippery rain... brakes go out, you can engine brake, and you can take off in 2nd gear, not too many automatics (only one I've seen is in Jaguars) that have a feature to cut out 1st gear.

2. If you drive it right, you can get better gas mileage.

3. CHEAPER!

4. (In my opinion) a lot more fun, nothing quite feels like flying into a corner, slamming it into 2nd and roaring off, eh, eh?

Bah, I talk too much.

-Jer

 

I don't want to get too involved here. But I just want to support my guys, Rockeyboy and Storer. I'm with you guys!

 

One thing I'd like to mention is that the "automatic" in the high-end cars is NOT the traditional automatic either, and it's not a CVT. It's actually a computer SHIFTING GEARS for you. The Toyota MR2 Spyder has one, as does Porsche. I forget whoelse has one. If MINI offered this, I'd take it over the 6 speed in a flash. There is NO loss of torque due to an automatic transmission, it will shift faster than you ever could possibly hope to no matter who you are, and it's a whole new driving experience that would add to the MCS. It's basically a manual gearbox that the computer controls (in auto mode) or you do with paddles.... NOTHING like a CVT/Traditional auto. Oh yah... BMW actually offeres this now in their 2003 M3. So BMW has the technology...

SMT (Sequential manual tranny) is the future for current manual lovers. I think it will phase out traditional manual transmissions someday. But there's more cost of course.

(future MCS owner)

 

Ok, Ok. I'll say one more thing. The S is supposed to be sort of a "special" car. Like a unique, special edition sort of thing. Not every MINI is supposed to be an 'S'. Therefore, one way to make it special is to make it cost A LOT more or have it only available in a manual trans. I'm glad MINI chose the manual only route otherwise with only a $3k difference, I would think most MINIs would be "S' (although I could be wrong!)

 

I love my cvt, but I am waiting for that aftermarket turbo to come out ........ I might just have to void my warranty!!!

 

>>Ok, Ok. I'll say one more thing. The S is supposed to be sort of a "special" car. Like a unique, special edition sort of thing. Not every MINI is supposed to be an 'S'. Therefore, one way to make it special is to make it cost A LOT more or have it only available in a manual trans. I'm glad MINI chose the manual only route otherwise with only a $3k difference, I would think most MINIs would be "S' (although I could be wrong!)

Yeah ok if you want to look at it that way......
The way I see it, the S is just another version of the car....there is nothing limited edition about it.....if it were special edition, it would be limited production......the Cooper and the S are just two different kinds of cars.
For one thing it does not cost ALOT more.....my Cooper with all the options I added cost me more than what a base model 'S' costs. And to be honest I have seen more 'S's on the road than Coopers....which makes it no more unique than the Cooper is....and they are both VERY unique!
Nice theory though!!!!

_________________
<IMG SRC=http://tiger.towson.edu/~ltowns1/signature.jpg>
Smaller is better!

 

BMW actually offeres this now in their 2003 M3. So BMW has the technology...
>>
BMW has had MAJOR problems with SMG2, which is offered on the USDM M3's. It is really a manual transmission with an "automatic" (hydrolically operated) clutch. It can shift and rev match much better than a human, when it works properly.

 

>>The way I see it, the S is just another version of the car....there is nothing limited edition about it.....if it were special edition, it would be limited production......the Cooper and the S are just two different kinds of cars.

The break down goes 40% MCS in production, 60% MC in production.

In America, that breaks down to 8000 MCS, 12000 MC.

 

Sketcher:
I don't want to sound like the Online police, but, the Cooper is not a base model in relationship to the Cooper S. You can order a Cooper with as few or as many features as offered just as you can the S. I've ordered the S, but with most all features (packages). Does this make sense?

 

Hi Scoobs,
Yup it makes sense. Can you tell I know nothing about cars?

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I didn't think I'd get so many replies! It looks like I'm better off (my patience level) getting an automatic as Toronto (Canada) has a nice traffic jam problem all over the place. But I'm still not overlooking the stick. I was thinking of taking lessons next Spring. I do agree that the Mini screams out "STICK SHIFT!" and I'd love to drive manual in one but I'm such a clutz (and short attention span).

 

>>Hi Scoobs,
>>Yup it makes sense. Can you tell I know nothing about cars?
>>
>>Thanks to everyone for their replies. I didn't think I'd get so many replies! It looks like I'm better off (my patience level) getting an automatic as Toronto (Canada) has a nice traffic jam problem all over the place. But I'm still not overlooking the stick. I was thinking of taking lessons next Spring. I do agree that the Mini screams out "STICK SHIFT!" and I'd love to drive manual in one but I'm such a clutz (and short attention span).

In July my wife & I traveled to Toronto and indeed you guys have a tremendous traffic problem upthere. Very nice city otherwise with much to see and do. Toronto is like New York City minus the dirty streets and the street crime.

Only saw one MINI Cooper while we were upthere (In the 401 Expressway) and another one when we went down to Niagara By The Lake.

 

We got a Cooper with the CVT, primarily my wife's car, and she needed automatic tranny. But I wanted a little bit more fun. But if you get or have this transmission, make sure to pay attention to the power peaks: Torgue @ 4000, Power @ 6000. In reality, after you're in 3rd gear, if you put your foot in it, shift at 6000-- the engine only drops to 5000, and reaches 6000 again very VERY quickly (and this with the standard engine). All of a sudden, you're doing over 75 and the engine sound is like music. Oh, on that point, turn off the damn radio when you're doing this. That little motor provides all the music you need.

 

>>Ah, what bliss life would be if a car could be invented that was both a stick AND an auto, clutch and all. Flip a switch, the clutch gets disengages, and if you didn't want to shift, you didn't have to. One of our forklifts is sortof like that, it's a stick with a torque converter. Very weird.
>>
>>Like THAT would ever happen.
>>
Already has. Ferrari invented a manual that can shift like an automatic using hydroelectric servo technology. The transmission has all the same equipment that a normal manual does but has servos that move the clutch disk. This is the paddle system that people talked about earlier.

>>Personally, I would like to see the US move more to stickshift, but it'll probably never happen. Its always worth the effort to learn, however, you never know when you'll need it, the best way to learn is to find a driveway with a hill. If you can stop and take off smoothly without rolling back a half mile, you're gold. If you can balance the car by riding the clutch, you're platinum (just don't do that for too long... can burn out the clutch.)
>>
>>I've always defended sticks for a few reasons.
>>
>>1. Safer in the snow or slippery rain... brakes go out, you can engine brake, and you can take off in 2nd gear, not too many automatics (only one I've seen is in Jaguars) that have a feature to cut out 1st gear.
>>

Many GM fwd cars have a 2nd gear start feature.



>>2. If you drive it right, you can get better gas mileage.
>>
>>3. CHEAPER!

Unless you get a vette, camaro or Firebird. Manuals on all of those cars were no cost options.

>>
>>4. (In my opinion) a lot more fun, nothing quite feels like flying into a corner, slamming it into 2nd and roaring off, eh, eh?
>>
>>Bah, I talk too much.
>>
>>-Jer