It was interesting to read all these posts. I believe MINI has a serious problem on their hands.
We have been to the dealer 4 times to have our Airbag light issue fixed.
First they could not verify, then we showed them the light when we took it in, then they replaced the sensor mat with a new mat.
Fourth try, they finally said.... "How Much does your wife weigh" I know she would kill me but I told them 155lB
Then they proceeded to note they wanted to bring in the head Mini specialist, to "See how she sits".
She is so livid. It should not matter how you sit. Unless they can prove to me in writting, that there is not an issue, it is unsafe.
My wife now refuses to ride in our Mini until they fix it.
If so many people have this issue, or should I say, the ones who have passengers and know they have this issue, why can Mini not fix it?

 

same deal on my Mom's BMW X3, light came on when people sat on the seat and would stay on even when driving. Took it to dealer, no error code, took a little drive in it, and took it in...

the reason for no error was that the sensor was no longer in the correct position...

they replaced it though but tooooooook a week before they had the part..

 

Probably not as there are many different setups that can cause this exact thing to happen.

This could VERY EASILY be the problem. This is NOT just a simple weight mat. It senses weight and location of the weight to determine the TYPE of person sitting there.

Of course I would not ride in it either but i have a few other questions (your wife may not like these being told either).

1. how tall is she?

2. how high is her waist off the floor? I.e. doe she have unusually long or short legs?

3. Does she have the seat forward al the way or back all the way?

4. what happens if she drives and you sit in the seat?

Just remember what you read here is a very very very small portion of the MINI's our there so not that many people have this issue.

 

Went through this same scenario...EXACTLY and issue still remains and Mrs. LOP is 110#.

After much experimentation, this seems to work for us.

BEFORE starting car:

ALL passengers must be seated and buckled in.

Then start the car. Air bag will be disabled (lit brightly), then enabled (light off), then disabled (lit dimly), then enabled (light off).

Then you can proceed to drive safely.

Hope this works for you.

 

Interesting thread. I have sorta an opposite experience. With laptop plus a file of papers in my backpack, if I put the backpack on its bottom and all the way against the backrest, the light goes off and the bong sounds. I ended up buckling my backpack in, not a bad idea for protecting the laptop. However, the pack was nowhere near 80 lbs. If I play with the backpack, slide it forward some and some more, I may get the light to turn on, thus stop the bonging. It's happened once that I can remember with a human passenger of about 115lbs and I was driving, the light came on. Adjusting her seating position or bouncing on and off the seat on her rear did not correct the light. Turning car on and off reset it that time. I have to keep an eye on the light!

2009 Clubman with cloth and leather hot choco seats

 

I had the same problem of the passenger air bag light staying on in my 2006 MCSCa. When I took it to the dealer they replaced the whole passenger seat cover at no charge , saying the pressure switch was defective.

 

Not sure where you got the 80LBS from. The seat sensor in the passenger seat will detect weights as low as 7 LBS The spec is that it must detect a minimum of 11 LBS.

Now the seat sensor not only detects the weight but also detects where and how that weight is distributed on the seat. This way it is supposed to know what is there and if the airbag should be turned off or not. I.E. a small child, baby seat, etc.

There is much more going on with that sensor than people think.

 

Recently, I've been getting both the yellow overhead AIRBAG OFF light (above the rearview mirror) and the red warning light on the center dash. This happens several times a week with my wife in the car, sitting as she's sat since we bought the car 2 years ago.

My '05 MCS is out of warranty. Is this viewed as a safety issue that will be covered even though the warranty has expired, or would I have to pay for them to fix it? (I might bring it to an independent shop (ORR) instead of Motorwerks MINI if it won't be covered.

 

I took my car in for this problem. They ended up replacing the "force plate" as they called it which was done by replacing the seat mat. My girlfriend (110 pounds) would be sitting in the seat normally and the light would be on. We took it in and they ran their tests. Nothing was found to be wrong. So they physically took us in the garage to have her sit and show us that it was working. He would push with his hand on the seat and the light would come on, so he couldn't have put 100 pounds on the seat. He repeated this a few times and it worked. Thankfully, he was still showing me and finally it did not work. The light would not come on even though he was applying pressure and then sat in the seat. So they ordered (yes a week, get the right seat mat with or without the heating element, can't have all combinations laying around) and replaced it. My car has been fine since. However, they gave me a 2009 loaner recently for some other problems, and this loaner had the same problem. I called and told them about it and they said they would look at it. A week later I got the same loaner car and the same problem existed. I do not trust that the airbag will deploy in a collision. Just because the light is or is not on, obviously does not mean everything is working correctly. 2007 mcs

 

Had the same issue with a 2008 MC. Reported it 4 times with the usual 'could not duplicate' response. After submitting lemon-law paperwork, we were offered a replacement vehicle. During the test-drive of the replacement vehicle (new 2009 MC), wifey points to the airbag light being on during the drive. Showed it to the manager. We were told the seats are all hand-stitched and that they can try changing out the seats. We were told the air bag should still deploy. What? No thanks. We asked for our money back.
Greg

 

I'm currently having the same problem with an 09 Clubman. I was able to get them to replicate the problem and they tried to fix it by installing a new seat mat (which I guess includes the sensor). Unfortunately it seems local mini techs just don't have the tools to install a seat mat as well as the production line does, and now the problem is even worse.

I believe this is a problem in engineering too. There should not be so many complexities in an airbag sensor. This results in safety issues that are brushed off or ignored because they do not produce codes in the cars computer. I do not fault my dealership for this, but I plan to follow lemon law procedure because a car with such a problem should not be acceptable. As I do believe it is a design error, I do not expect Mini/BMW service to be able to fix the problem.

Hopefully the dealership is kind enough to work with me on the problem. It could mean the difference between buying a different type of car from them instead and having lawyers issue demands.

 

For your own sake do not mention this to the dealer until

1. you have all the facts of what your state lemon law is (most require the dealer to have tried to fix the problem at lest 3-4 times before you can even apply for a hearing or court case)

2. you give the dealer fair chances to remedy the problem for you.

My suggestion is take it back and tell them it is worse and that you would rather that they replace the whole seat as a full assembly. That way you get a seat from the production facility with the seat mat already in place.

Now as to your actual problem can you explain it to me in detail as to when it works and does not work. I may be able to help you figure out what the "real" problem is.

 

Had the same issue when I picked up my 2010. After I sat in the passenger seat the problem went away. My wife would hate me to say it, but she's not a lightweight so I theorize it has something to do with how the seat is built and how the passenger sits in it. Never had the issue since I sat in it. *shrug*

 

Hat to say it but i can think of two things that might have happened.

1. By sitting in it you repositioned the mat slightly (wearing in) kind of things

2. There may have been a stuck sensor switch in the mat and by sitting in it you unstuck it.

BTW what comment was that about your wife, oh you did not say anything that's it. lol

 

You're suggestions are absolutely correct, and I don't fault the dealership for the problem. I do plan to give them the required chances to fix the problem. They have done a great job in the past fixing other errors for me, and I'd much rather just have a pleasant experience with the car I chose in the first place.

That said, the first time the problem was noted, it took over 9 months for the part to arrive from back order. Then the part was not inventoried correctly and they forgot it went to my car. Then when they tried to install it, they broke another couple of pieces on other parts of the seat, so now those have to be installed. Also, I live 2 hours away from the dealership and have to use vacation time to have any of this fixed as there are no qualified technicians for this type of work available on the weekends. So now here I am a year later with a car that I originally loved but am slowly growing disenchanted with over the idea that this problem might only not get fixed, but also disputed. I feel like the dealer needs to know that I am interested in continuing my business and relationship with them, but only if they are interested in providing me with an issue-free or issue-fixable vehicle. Having a new seat installed would be fine (if this fixes the problem). Having to back order one for another nine-plus months would not.

Anyway, on to diagnosis:

1. Before the seat had an attempted repair, confirmed error occurs when:
a. Passenger of less than 160lbs sits in passenger seat and:
b. Seat height is lowered to the ground.*
c. Passenger sits where most of his/her weight is resting on the rear of the seat bottom cushion.

2. After attempted fix, unconfirmed errors occur when:
a. Passenger of less than 130lbs sits in passenger seat and:
b. Problem occurs recorded 33% of the time (2 of 6 rides with a passenger of this weight)
c. Problem has yet to occur with passengers over 130lbs.

Noted differences after fix are:
1. Seat cushion material is much looser than prior seat.
2. Side plastic trim is loose from a broken prong.
3. Seat cushion is installed incorrectly on the rear-underside. Both plastic "plugs" (for lack of a better term) that are designed to fit through plastic trim on inside and outside of the seat are broken and do not securely hold the trim to the seat. Also these plugs are intended to fit through notched locations on the seat cover. The inside plug was not fitted at all, and the outside plug was not fitted correctly. The technician chose to cut a square of material out of the cover to fit the plug through instead sending it through the proper hole.

The seat is an 09 Sport seat with black plastic trim and lumbar support. The seat type is leather/cloth combo with Cream leather bolsters and a black with cream striped cloth interior.

 

Glad to hear you can be patient. Although from the sounds of the rest of your post you sould be getting MUCH better service.

IMHO that is absolutely unacceptable and I would let the dealer know

You may want to try and use MINI Roadside assistance. It may not work though as the car is still drivable.

You may also want to see if the dealer is willing to BRING you a loaner and pick up your car. Not all dealers will do it but I know some will. Mine does if i need them to.

There is no reason they should not be able to have you a seat with in two weeks. In fact the original part should not have taken 9 months. Again I would explain to them that they need to do better.

Did the sensor work for all passengers if the seat height adjustment was not all the way down?

This may indicate another problem is why I ask.

Does it matter if the seat height adjustment is all the way down?

Again if it is only when the seat height adjustment is all the way down then there could be another problem.

IMHO this is totally unacceptable and the dealer should be driving a loaner out to you and taking your car back and replacing the entire seat because they screwed this one up.

Also if the seat cover is not on properly and is loose it could cause some the problems you are complaining about.

This is a very common color combination from what I have seen there really should not be any problems getting a seat.

If you can test the seat with it in other than the lowest height adjustment and let me know what the outcome is.

Also please let me know how tall the person is and their weight if you can.

Just to let you know the pressure pad in the seat is a multi point weight sensing pad, it is not just one sensor.

 

Well it was the combination of the seat height being down and the passenger sitting toward the back of the seat. It created a sitting pattern where no pressure was placed towards the front of the seat because the passengers legs are elevated from the knee back to the waist and a greater angle than the seat bottom. So yes, it could be interpreted as a function of height.

The problem was more common in passengers with lower weights so it was easier to observe this pattern on smaller, and shorter individuals, but it's possible the same thing could have occurred if a much taller person sat in the seat with the height adjustment raised.

Currently, it seems the problem is occurring regardless of sitting positions, and is occurring with the same individuals as prior.

I would suggest it being a bad sensor toward the middle/front of the seat prior to repair, and a function of poor repair after. But until I can get the car back in the shop it will be tough to discern.

Regardless, I'm an aerospace systems engineer that deals with things like pressure and weight sensors pretty routinely. And I can also appreciate creative and elegant design. But I also see design in simplicity as an important factor that was disregarded by MINI/BMW here. There are many cars that have a simple switch, controlled by a key or similar, that lets the operator manually enable or disable a passenger side airbag. While I appreciate MINI trying to make my life easier, they have introduced a lot of failure points by designing a complex system with no manual override. And to place it on an item critical to safety while not having a means to track its functionality is a pretty tough case for me to look at.

Loaner cars are a no go by this dealerships standards. I live out of state from them, and insurance will not let the operator go out of state. They will work with local rental car agencies, as I've had to do in the past for prior problems with the car, but it is a very large hassle (I had to issue a charge back to the slimy rental company here), and prefer to use it as a last resort.

There is now a dealership in my state that I'm about equal distance to. I'll be sure to carry any new problems to them. But the current problem occurred before the new dealership opened so I'm trying to resolve it with my original location. Plus, they are the ones that sold me the car. One would think for reputations sake, they would like to make sure the cars they sale are of good quality. The members of their service team have always been extremely nice and cordial, and, with the exception of this fix, have always done a great job. I do want to give them a chance to fix it.

Thanks for your input on the wait times. I was given the line that my seats were custom order from Germany and had to be back ordered. That was one year ago. It should be expected that these parts are no longer on back order at this point, at least due to style selection anyway.

I think I will probably allow them to try to fix the current seat (try #2), and if that fails, will request an all new seat (try #3). I feel that if a brand new seat cannot fix the problem, then either poor design or excessively poor QC could only be the only cause. As many do not have this problem, it's most likely quality control. If after 3 tries the sensor still fails, I will begin procedures for buy back because it can sometimes take a long time to get results and I am also unsure as to if there are any statutes of limitations on lemon-law within the state.

I honestly love my car to death. It's the only car I've ever been so passionate about. But if I have to make a choice between it and it's precious cargo, the passengers win.

 

I understand your frustration but unfortunately it is the NHTSA that tells them HOW it must work. MINI unfrotunately is not the only one with this problem. Many new cars have this problem due to the "mandatory" automatic sensing of the size of the person required by the NHTSA.

BTW here is what the MINI WDS states about the Passenger Seat Occupancy Pad.

"According to the regulations of the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), a small child in the child restraint system specifically designed for the purpose on the front passenger's seat must be detected automatically.

On detection, the airbags on the passenger's side are automatically disabled (front passenger's airbag and side airbag). The indicator lamp for the passenger's airbag deactivation lights up.

If a person of adequate size sitting correctly (adolescent / adult) is detected, the airbag on the passenger's side are activated (front passenger's airbag and side airbag). The indicator lamp for the passenger's airbag deactivation does not light up.
In certain cases involving adolescents and adults, the front passenger's airbag can deactivate (indicator lamp for front passenger's airbag deactivation lights up). In these cases, the seat position must be can be changed until the indicator lamp for the front passenger's airbag deactivation goes out (front passenger's airbag and side airbag activated).

The seat occupation detection is based on evaluation of the applied surface pressure that is created when a load is applied. The distances of the surfaces and centres of gravity on the occupied seat cushion indicate whether an adolescent or adult or small child is in the child restraint system specifically designed for the purpose."

Also of note is that MINI states that if the sensor pad is replaced the foam insert that it sits on MUST be replaced as well.
Now one thing I can say is that if the problem has gotten worse, then it is possible that the tech did not get the pad in the correct place in the seat. If the pad is moved to far toward the front edge of the seat then the sensors will not be able to sense the persons position correctly and thus deactivate the air bags.

Here are three pictures of the occupancy pad, two show incorrect mounting (with circles) and one with the correct mounting (arrows).







As for the dealer ship issue. You may want to think about the new dealer for service on this as they may (but may not also) want to get you as a new customer and thus if they do may give you better service.

As for the seat parts being broken and not put together correctly. That is something in my personal opinion is totally unacceptable and would be required to be fixed and fixed at their expense and done immediately.

Check with the new dealer and see what their loaner policy is.

BTW not sure where you live but where is live in MASS if the dealer has a loaner program then they MUST allow out of state use.

Another ting you may want to do is register a complaint with MINI USA about the loaner issue as if there was not a dealer in you state then how are they to disallow you a loaner.

 

That's excellent information! Do all associates have access to the images? It seems pretty clear from them that even if a sensor is installed correctly that an improper install of the seat cover or pad could cause shifts in the equipment. I'll keep in mind the details you've provided me when I carry the car back in for service. I never want to tell someone how to do their job, especially if they are more qualified than me, but it will be useful to know what to inspect for before signing off again.

 

Just to let you know I "do not" work for MINI. I am just a very enthusiastic MINI enthusiast that cares about what type of problems others have and how to help them get thru their situations.

 

We also have been having problems with the front passenger airbag sensor system for the past six months or so in our 2006 Mini. I first observed that the yellow "passenger airbag off" indicator in front of the mirror would sometimes be lit with my 180 puond 18 year-old son riding in the front passneger seat. When my shorter 120 pound 16 year-old son was riding in the front passenger seat the "passenger airbag off" indicator was not lit. Then the problem progressed to being lit nearly all the time with anyone in the front passenger seat. At this point there were some occassions when the system did seem to operate normally (i.e. not lit with a normal adult in the front passenger seat). Eventually the red airbag light in the speedometer cluster joined in with the yellow "passenger airbag off" and came on and stayed on most of the time in addition to the yellow "passenger airbag off" being lit all the time whenever the car is turned on and running. Now on ocassion even though a passenger has exited the vehicle while still running the sensor(s) set off the seatbelt unfastened dinger and indicator until the front passenger seat belt is fastened with no passenger present.

The whole system has gone "whacko" at this point with no apparent consistancy detecting the presence of a passenger that qualifies for air bag deployment in the event of an accident (i.e. "passenger air bag" indicator not lit while riding in the fornt passenger seat) or sometimes indicating a "phantom" passenger with no passenger present to an ocassional seemingly back to normal operation.


We are way past any warranty period and an earlier dealer estimate to replace only the airbag sensor in the fornt passenger seat was $1200. I fear based on what I've read on this post that I might not want to gamble that much on having the dealer attempt to repair something that seems to have major design flaws. Any input from others having similar problems who have found less expensive solutions or possible home remidies would be greatly appreciated.

 

Just an update.

After having the previously broken parts repaired, my car had still as many, if not more, occurrences of the airbag deactivated warning light going off. I carried the car back in to the shop yet again and still all the service department did was hook it up to their machine and it told them there was nothing wrong and that my wife was "sitting incorrectly." I went home fumming and put up with it until this past week.

My wife was gracious enough to drive the car to the dealership this time because even she had had enough of the seat screwing up. When she got there they tested the car yet again to the diagnosis machine, but this time they tested it on 2 separate machines. One with old software, and one with updated software.

Surprise, surprise the machine with new software detected a discrepancy. They flash the computer in the car (which took over 2 days because apparently these machines are crap) and now the car seems to be working properly. Finally, after having the car for over a year and putting 30k miles on it, I might have a fully functioning Mini. I guess time will tell.

So my suggestion to anyone still having the problem is to carry the car in to your dealer and make sure they are testing it on up-to-date diagnosis machines.

 

My 2007 Cabrio Mini has developed this problem, with the light on the dash and the light above the rear view mirror coming on and staying on if there is no one in the passenger seat and when there is someone in the seat. I did a check on the underseat wires the first time this happened and it worked OK. Now no matter what I do the lights remain on. Any suggestions. No dealer her in Alaska to help.

 

We have been unwilling to spend the money to have the passenger airbag sensor repaired by the dealer since it appears it may be a design issue. I did inquire if there were any recalls or any recourse with the Mini manufacturer since it is a major safety concern and there were no recalls at that time. I mentioned that it should be an item of concern since it creates a major safety issue! The response from the dealer service department was "well, the warning light is on indicating a problem" like that absolves the manufacturer of any liability concerning a crappy design!

 

I too have been having issues with his light. On mine the light will be on 90% of the time if someone sits in the seat and off 90% when nothing is in the seat. To me it looks like the airbag is off when someone is in the seat and off when no one is in the seat. The last time it was looked at I was told not to put my backpack in the seat. So I started not putting it there and kept track of the light, no change in behavior. I have had people in the car and had them move around on seat and buckle unbuckle with no change...

Its going in soon for this an other issues...