[quote=yubman;2635690]You might be on to something here... I saw this on the Mini2 forums about a new valve cover assembly possibly to fix crank case venting:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-f...ours-back.html

"Took it back in - been there about ten days now - & they have the head off. Found excessive carbon in the cylinders & intake ports due to what they say is a failure of the new engine's original design to properly filter out oil vapor. There's an updated valve cover assembly to fix this apparently."

The post was from last Nov, so it's possible that the new "emblem-less" covers noted in the "08-09 changes" (https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ges-fixes.html) thread is a new part?



Hey yubman:
I finally read your link. Very interesting! I would like to hear more about the "fix" that MINI did, but I'm not a member of that forum. If there's a fix out there, that indicates that MINI recognizes that there's a problem. At our nearby Houston dealership (Momentum), they seem to have absolutely no intention of admitting mechanical fault. When I contact MINIUSA, they always refer me back to the local dealership as the ONLY tech support offered by MINI. Competent tech support above the dealership level is evidently non-existent....a real weak link in the MINI system (heavy on marketing / weak on tech support)

 

HHH, have you talked to the dealership in the Woodlands?

 

Yea, in fact we bought it from MINI of The Woodlands. It's inconvenient because of the distance, but that's where we intend to take it for the next service. They're much more responsive & customer-friendly.

HHH

 

At least there are two dealerships in the Houston area. I haven't had to take ours in yet, but I hope Momentums treatment of your case isn't typical. I'm a bit worried about the notion of having to save gas receipts.

 

I'm in the research phase of buying a new Mini when I decided to look up what kind of problems come up and their fixes. I tend to keep cars for at least 10 to 12 years so a bit of research is done before I buy any new car.

However with the Mini I kind of feel a bit like Sherlock Holmes... Having to piece together items from different threads/forums and web pages while digging for the fixes to some (at least in my mind) troubling issues.

Ones that I've been following closely are:

Carbon build up. A possible new valve cover assembly was noted on Mini2. Here there are reports of an "emblem-less" valve covers on the latest cars. Is it a new part to address oil vapor?

Cold Start "diesel-ing sounds. Mini2's forum notes several people taking cars back for a new cam tensioner as recently as last week. Is it a new revision of the part or the fix that was tried and didn't work last fall?

Melting hood scoops. At least one person noted recently that a new scoop was installed made of a "different plastic"; better able to withstand the heat. Again, a new part or the dealer blowing smoke?

Window issues. There are many threads dealing with issues with the windows (dipper, opening by themselves etc). New door switches and actuators as well as updated Foot Well Modules were noted here and there, but the threads are still noting problems.

It would be nice if someone who works at a Mini dealer were able to confirm part numbers, software versions and new revisions so everyone can be on the same page.

It's not uncommon that fixes to problems are addressed by the factory and quietly implemented. Some dealers may just not be willing to dig for a fix that may be already addressed.


t

 

yubby, I am SO in your camp on this. Your last comment perfectly describes the situation with the 1st Gen PS Pump Fan and Wiring Harness -- a quiet redesign and fix largely to allow BMW MINI avoid (1) any clear admission of liability; and (2) the cost (of fleet-wide retrofit or a full recall).

In fact, I strongly recommend that you take your post and use it as the basis for a whole new thread in this forum. It addresses a broader and more pressing need than just the carbon build-up issue and it deserves the attention. Maybe you could call it "Confirmation of Fixes in the Works" or better words to that effect. This has the potential makings of a sticky!

 

Amen.

Great idea.

A thread sharing all of all the unpublicized "fixes" would be very interesting (& helpful).

HHH

 

Speaking of unpunlicized fixes, Really nothing mechanical but the last time they had my Mini they replaced the tail pipes on the exhaust. I guess it was recall becuase of people getting burndt on them.

 

I think I remember getting a postcard on the tailpipe fix. We opted not to do it. Anyone who gets their leg burned is running way too close to my back bumper.

HHH

 

The dealer didn't ask me if I wanted it done, they just did it and I found out the next day when I read over the paperwork.

 

The dealer called this afternoon and said the car did make the rattleing noise and that the oil leak appears to be a rear main seal. I noticed when the oil was changed the last time that there was moisture around the oil filler cap and top of valve cover. I wonder if it has a blown head gasket or maybe a cracked head/block? Mini USA has told the engineer to track down where the rattleing noise is coming from but the car got to warn and the rattle stopped before they could figure anything out. I have also noticed that the loaner car they gave me which is an 2009 clubman/s automatic tran i'm getting 10 more mpg then my car.

 

On another thread someone sent me a cut-away drawing of the engine. After looking at it, I see no logical way that a fuel problem could be causing the carbon buildup in the intake port prior to the intake valve assuming the engine is functioning properly. I have no proof, but I still believe it has something to do with a design problem with the venting of the crankcase into the intake. The drawing wasn't detailed enough to show the exact routing. Does anyone have a good schematic showing the venting off of the crankcase?
For fuel to be the culprit (when it's being injected directly into the combustion chamber) the combustion products would have to be blowing past the intake valve. i.e. There would have to be a valve seating problem or a valve timing problem.
Again, I ask: Am I missing something in my logic?
HHH

 

That's pretty much the same comclusion I came to as well. Besides, how does carbon in the intake manifold affect the running of the car, unless it's built up so much that it's blocking the runner?

 

When we took ours in for its 1st scheduled service, it was misfiring a little while idling. I don't know exactly the connection between the deposits and the misfiring, but that was their diagnosis of the cause. And, when we got it back, it wasn't a problem anymore. Possibly the build-up was fairly heavy as you said..,.....I don't know.

HHH

 

Heh.... ive not replaced a head personally on an R56 MCS yet, BUT..... ive seen one yanked off by the tech next to me and yes, i can tell you that carbon DOES build up in the runners quite a bit... un sure of why this happens, my guess is that its direct injection for one, and also the crank case ventilation aspect is wacky. pull the intake hose of your turbo and look, you'll probably see a little puddle of oil.... this usually gets sucked into the turbo and shot through the piping and up into the intake manifold eventually after it makes its way through the intercooler.... my suggestion is get a catch can as the factory valve doesn't do much good it seems. . my guess is since its direct injection the fuel that normally sprays into the opening of the cyl head is instead directly into the combustion chamber and the oil ends up getting caked onto the intake ports of the cyl head from high heat due to the turbo shoving somewhat warm compressed air in and the engine being hot as well.

only good way to clean it is to remove the intake manifold. and i find it easier to remove the subframe to do so to get at the rear bolts on the underside.. im sure it COULD be done by just reaching around the back but there is ALOT of wiring and fragile stuff back there, so be fore warned..

just my input

 

I've personally never tried it....but I've heard that the "Seafoam" method works well. Any thoughts???

 

On a new car under warranty, check with MINI first. Sounds interesting.

 

BMW/MINI needs to figure out why the carbon build-up is occurring, but I was wondering has anyone tried Sea Foam on their MINI's as a temporary solution? The Honda and Toyota guys swear by this stuff to clean out carbon deposits.

 

Hello, first post for a mini shopper. Checking the threads for 'congenital' problems, the coking and cold start seem to be issues only with the R56 Cooper "S"(?). I can't recall seeing any posts concerning the 'regular' Cooper engine.

Some notes: If what I read is correct, there is coking in the intake tract as well as inside #4 cyl, if that is so, it's most likely not a fuel/DI issue. Also, engines are so precisely managed now that the "Italian tuneup" should not be effective at all (though, it does remain the perfect reason to go out for a rip).

Oil is either coming in down the valve stem (rubber valve seals aren't and/or guides worn) or in through the intake tract itself. Oil leak in turbo, or crankcase exhaust gas return may be putting oil in for combustion.

That Mini has changed the valve cover indicates that they may believe that it's becoming too pressurized and pushing oil past the valve seals/guides or through the EGR. If it were pushing past the seals, you'd probably see coking on the exhaust valve, too.

The turbo's seals could go out and put some oil in the intake, but it's less likely.

I'm inclined to guess that the cause is excess oil entering the intake tract from the emissions system (crankcase breather) with emissions for reburning. As above, Mini probably tried to patch the problem with the mod'd valve cover.

I have 2 questions:

- Is oil consumption unusual (e.g. more than a quart for 3500 miles or so)?
- Are any crankcase vent/exhaust gas return hoses close to #4 cylinder's intake tract (or, in a spot that would pool or run into #4)?

- Charlie

 

I have 2 questions:

- Is oil consumption unusual (e.g. more than a quart for 3500 miles or so)?
- Are any crankcase vent/exhaust gas return hoses close to #4 cylinder's intake tract (or, in a spot that would pool or run into #4)?

- Charlie[/quote]

Re Q #1: We didn't notice extra oil consumption. I'm at the office, but I think we added a qt. at about 12000 mi.

Re Q #2: I would like to see a detailed drawing showing where the crankcase vents into the intake. I believe that's the key to the whole problem.

How can we get MINI/BMW to respond to this question? When I communicate with MINIUSA, they say they're marketing only & refer me to the local dealership. When I talk with the local dealership, they blame it on "bad gas" which I think is logically impossible (DI). "Big MINI" has a very effective buffering system protecting themselves from what I believe is useful feedback. Are there any lawyers out there monitoring this thread? How do you get a company to respond to customer concerns?

HHH

 

There are some very general drawings on this thread:

http://new.minimania.com/web/threadi.../forum_msg.cfm

I would really like to see some more detailed drawings showing the exact routing of the crankcase vent oil.

HHH

 

it's a gas additive similar to Techron, BG44K, etc. I know a SAE engineer and MINI owner that swears by the stuff. My fave is BG44K but it's pricey. I might give it a shot.

 

But, since this is a fuel additive & the fuel is being injected directly into the combustion chamber, it wouldn't help us with our carbon deposits in the intake, right?

HHH

 

Additives are for varnish and injector cleaning - micro, light stuff. 1/4" of carbon is a whole different league of dirty, whatever the cause. Sump'in ain't right.

My first job was in the warranty parts return dept at a factory in Detroit. The plant manager used to read just about every coherent letter from warranty and whoever was involved (assembly or engineers) would hear about it. This was in a dysfunctional US company 25 yrs ago, so Mini has got to be doing better than that. Call or write them - NA HQ or even Europe. I bet they know that there is a problem and what is causing it. They won't tell you anything, but the more voices heard the better. The fix will just pop out. (That they may have to work through PSA is another dimension.)

Regardless of cause - the answer has to come from them. There isn't any driving condition that should cause a modern engine to carbon up in 40k.

I hope it's simple - it's a nice mill.

Just a thought, anybody report any stuck valves? Wondering if this gunk problem might be causing the cold start clatter? Happens in piston aircraft a lot; generally goes away when everything heats up. They call it morning sickness.

 

Or the other way around. If the chatter is resulting from oil intermittently draining out of the HLAs (depending on where the camshaft stops); and all of the previous, repeated occurrences of chatter have gradually beat the valve seats and seals into submission, could oil be leaking past the seals and into the cylinders and thus exacerbating the carbon build-up?