I have an early production 2009 MCS (Nov 2008 Production date). I started to notice a loud rattle in what I thought was in the globe box or dash at about 10k miles. I'm currently at just over 11k miles and dropped her off at Passport Mini today because the rattling has been getting more pronounced. I happens when it's cool/cold outside, and started after my dealer did an oil change (I figure that's coincidental).

Now it's to the point that it sounds like an old 1980's diesel rabbit for the first 3-4 minutes after starting, and then promptly clears up completely.

I grabbed some audio on my iphone (happened to catch it today after start-up) to help explain to the SA at Passport Mini when I dropped it off today. The SA was great. I offered to play it for him, and his response was I know what you're talking about, we'll take a look. My description of the problem was that it basically sounds like a diesel engine and is significantly more pronounced between 1700-2100 RPM.

I'm on break from classes (grad school) so I told them they could keep it as long as it took to replicate the problem (I liked the approach others used on here). I dropped it off today at approx 1pm, and they got back to me just after 5pm and said they may need to replace the timing chain. They'll know more tomorrow afternoon. I'm not sure if that means they didn't get to it today, or if it means they opened her up and found some damage and are looking to see how bad the timing chain is tomorrow.

The only real question they asked me was "have you checked the oil?" Yes, and it's full.

Either way, I'm fine with them taking their time to get it right.

It was fun to hear him stumble when I asked if the parts were in stock. "Um, yeah we generally have the timing chains in stock because this is um sometimes happens."

Overall, I've been happy with Passport Mini of Alexandria. I hope they come through for me on this one.

 

I think this works better for cars that have just started knocking, rather than cars that have had done this multiple times over longer periods. While mine seems to work OK, as well as a friend of mine whose car, like mine, knocked only a couple times before he started doing this, a couple other people that have tried this on cars that have knocked many more times over longer periods and they've had no luck.

When U did this, did U rev it to 3K, hold a sec, then hit the stop button at 3k? I dont think it will work if U rev to 3k then allow it back to idle, then stop.

 

sounds like excessive cold engine valve lash, prob from the exhaust valves, and the inability of the poorly-designed hydraulic valve lash adjusters (HLAs) to retain adequate startup oil as your engine cools off and the metals contract. Once you start it up, for a short bit there's no oil in the HLAs and they knock pnuematically until the engine warms up, oil is redelivered, metals expand, and everything is back within engineered tolerances.

That's why Im not sold on the timing chain tensioner as the root cause of the problem. It's much deeper than that, and BMW still hasnt acknowledged this. But hey at least they;re not in denial anymore, and are trying. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

So without reading 56 pages here, and 100+ pages on MINI2... am I accurate in saying they're not for sure what this noise is? Yet most dealerships know about it, and have a sorts of remedy for what they think it is? Mine doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened.

 

I had the Chain Tensioner fix. And my car has not made the noise since. I have a 2009 MCS with 15K on it now.

 

Well I dropped it off Monday afternoon at Passport Mini of Alexandria. They called Tuesday afternoon saying they needed to keep it until today to verify the fix. I called them just before close today to see what was going on, and they found a problem with the throttle body. It was evidently throwing fault codes, so it needed replacing. They're overnighting the part and it should be here tomorrow. It really makes me wonder if they didn't bother reading the codes until today, or if they put the entire repair off until today.

Doesn't exactly build confidence when the story seems off.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. Seems odd that they need the car for a week to do a timing chain tensioner and a throttle body replacement. At least she'll be fresh for the new year.

 

MINI of Mountain View kept mine for a week to do the tensioner fix. Took a few days to replicate the problem, then a few more to get parts and fix it. Mine was the first (or so they said) to have the tensioner fixed there, so they didn't stock the parts.

They didn't do anything with the trottle.

 

So I got my car back on Monday. Turns out where I thought my car would be out in the cold for 5 days there so I can demonstrate the noise, they ended up leaving it inside their car wash while moving cars around. So my car was in a climate controlled environment while at the dealer, and when they were closed for the long Xmas weekend. So when I started her up there Monday morning, there was no noise. Tuesday it was bitter cold here (wind chill near 0 F), and my car started normal with no noise. Today it was about 30F, but I didn't take her to work. I took her with me for bowling tonight (leagues), and there was a slight hint of noise, not nearly as loud as what i've heard before, but it was definitely not a normal sound. It also amplified a little while revving to about 1750RPM. It was more of a wobbling sound than a clatter. It went away after a minute or 2. I bowled for about 2 hours, fired her up and everything's normal. I guess I need to just keep a listen to hear if it comes back at all..

 

Heard mine again last night... guess I should bring it to dealer.

 

Using the Bavarian Technic scan tool when the CEL went on, then off after 100 miles, the misfiring faults on cylinders 1,2, 4 suggested low fuel pressure and, sure enough, the pressure was low (2.21 not 5) -- which led to the replacement of the HPFP. Of relevance to this thread is the fact that it has the telltale rattle in the cold (the mini lives in OR too). When it threw a CEL again…on and off, again … the Technic scan tool showed related codes to which Minitechinfo.com attached a complicated search and ameliorate procedure. I would swear this had changed from a month ago. Bavarian Technic and Mini update often, so it is possible. The faults were, 2777, 277B & 2783 (with the HPFP, they were 2773, 277B, 277F). After some digging (swapping the coils and plugs, rechecking the fuel pressure) and measuring the chain, the chain (as expertly indicated earlier in the thread) proved to be out of whack (pardon the technical terms) by 11mms. This led -- as we have also seen above – to the full monty (11 parts, numbers omitted) VANOS system part swap.
The dealer, East Bay Mini, has taken a determined and aggressive approach. It couldn’t be done better and that’s a fact. As one who owns two VW Turbo TDI’s, experience teaches that some solutions come hard. I, for one, appreciate the input from other Mini owners. My partner likes her car so it will be with me for a long time. Keep us posted. ‘08MCS, 19K.

 

My 2 cold start knocks never threw codes. engine ran smooth, no funny exhaust, no varying idle, just that loud banging from the glovebox area for about 1.5 minutes until the engine warmed up.

however I do know that the VANOS unit will throw a code if it is faulty.

 

The cold start chatter is well understood by Mini. According my dealer, it shows up on S engines, and involves the timing chain and its tensioners which may start to get a little "sloppy" over time. There is a fix for it requiring some heavy duty engine work which my dealer did at no charge on my 07 MCS. The chatter is gone, and the engine seems to run smoother overall. I highly recommmend that anyone with this problem immediate see their dealer.

 

Thanks to all for the helpful comments regarding the cold start rattling issue. My 2008 S has 60K on it and just left warranty. The rattling has been a problem for quite a while, but has become louder and longer lasting of late. I just today learned of the defective timing chain tension issue and I intend to contact the dealer for a repair at factory expense. The interesting thing to me involves the apparent attempt of my dealer to downplay the issue during the warranty period. In addition to the cold start issue, I also experienced the check engine light on several occasions right from the very start. I reported it to the dealer and they responded with "Is it running ok?.......well it will likely go out". During a service visit for oil, I asked about the code the computer reported, and the mechanic responded that the light had come on due to a misfire. I thought it was bad fuel and put the matter aside. My suspicion now is that the misfire came from bad valve timing due to the tensioner problem. Meaning my car had the issue when I purchased it with 10 miles on it. My dealer should have known the problem existed and resolved it long before now. I will chronicle my adventure to get the issue resolved.

 

thanks

 

I took my CAI off before I had the chatter checked out. It takes 10 minutes to do and there is no point even giving them a reason to give you a hard time, even though the chatter has nothing to do with the intake. I think you just have one problem. Generally, my knock lasted about 5-10 minutes or so, I would take the car in and have them check it. My dealer didn't even try to replicate it, they were aware of the issue and took my word for it that the car was noisy.

 

Sorry but it sounds like the start of the "cold start rattle" officially, the 'rattle noise from engine' mentioned in SI M 11 02 07, the service bulletin widely available and also on minitechinfo.com -- the official site.
When you hear a rattle or the CEL goes on for a time, then off, and you feel misfires, one would think it is from a valve timing flaw and other mechanical issues like the timing chain tensioner -- as mentioned above. These, in turn, are part of the elaborate digital motor control (by the engine control unit), i.e., the computer which goes nuts trying to control smog when things are getting sloppy.
To your other query, owners have reported getting blacklisted by a dealer (and MINI) because of simple mods like a CAI or BOV. It depends on the service manager's point of view. It's a tough call. We are talking about a very difficult repair (according to my Bentley).
Below are the old links:
http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/02/...issue-exposed/
http://www.motoringfile.com/2009/05/...d-start-issue/

 

Cold weather can exacerbate the problem, but the cold start knock is more cold engine-related. Both of my knocks were in plus 40 degree weather, and people in warm climes report the knock as well.

As far as yr CAI, i'd play it safe and remove it, then reinstall the stock unit. I dont know how Desert MINI is, but may dealers are getting downright militant about engine mods and warranties.

 

Just switched to AMSOIL, and the chatter is nothing like it used to be. Still there though.

 

thanks everyone
ive gone ANON.

 

I rev'd it to 3k and held for about 2 seconds the first time, and over 5 seconds the second time. In both cases I cut the engine while it was at 3k.

Another update: Since the 'fix', I still have not had the rattle. This morning was the first time I had started the car in about a week, the temperature was -9.5 Celsius, and no rattle. I am happy (so far).

 

This is likely the timing chain issue we've been seeing lately - the chain has too much slack and until fully warmed up slaps/drags against the cover. Make sure you describe it like this - loud grinding/dragging chain noise when first starting, cold starts; that should alert them to the SIB and get your car fixed - it'll take the better part of an entire day, too, so keep that in mind.

There are cases where the same concern above is just due to low oil - check the oil level yourself to confirm it's ok (not just for your own benefit, but to avoid having the dealer write your concern off to low oil level)

Keep in mind the tensioner can also be an issue (this was an earlier SIB) and if it hasn't been changed, you should make sure that gets done as well.

Also, it's not *that* big of a job - my techs can get it done in a half day now, especially with all the practice (probably a few dozen at this point) No harm has been found to the engine, just noisy operation when cold.

 

The first is about right, the second too long. I literally hit the stop button right when the tach needle hits 3K, no longer, under a slow and steady rev-up.

Now that y've had the so-called fix, I'd keep doing this. keep us posted.

 

I tried the 3k rev once but the car sounded like it was going to blow up so I stopped.

Since the recent full monty fix on my 07, I have not had any more cold start chatter.

In fact, the engine sounds very different on start up (even different from the pre-fix start ups where the chatter did NOT occur) and I can also hear a melodious mechanical sound as I shift through the lower gears that was never present before. The difference in sound quality is hard to explain and maybe someone will understand why the car sounds better when starting and driving.

 

Got mine at the dealership now. We'll see.

 

Welp MAG in Columbus, Ohio said mine is fine... They couldnt replicate the noise. Guess Ill go pick it up in a few hours. I bet tomorrow morning itll be the same ol' diesel truck again lol.