What cold start? I garage the car every night. The car has not seen any cold starts.

 

Nope. Mine is a Nov '07 build and she's had it twice so far.

 

From Motoringfile
[SIZE=3]Gabe[/SIZE] May 29th, 2008 Link
I approached them last winter about this and told them the issue would blow-up if something wasn’t done - even if the issue turns out to be nothing serious. They need to address the perceived problem with a details explanation and (if needed) a bulletin to fix the issue for those who are complaining about it.
I haven’t heard anything since those talks last winter but I know they’re working on something.

 

I almost bought a MCS a few weeks ago and am still considering buying one, but am losing confidence in them after reviewing some of these threads. The startup clatter is real scary. I can't believe BMW does not know what the problem is after this amount of time. The claimed clatter appears to be somewhat random and without common conditions, such as temperature, etc. I have a theory based upon an experience I had many years ago on a 1969 GM product V8.

I started my car and drove approximately 2 miles when I thought I blew my engine. It made an awful clatter and knocking sound, then died. I thought I may have thrown a rod or broke something major. It was at night in the country and I was stranded until morning. I walked to a campground where my friend was staying to ask for a ride to get help. Another camper heard my explanation and told me to try a different condenser (distributor, points, condenser system). He actually had an old one in his tool box he carried. It WORKED.

My theory is that all that clattering on these minis could be due to a screwed up computer. In my old car, the faulty condenser caused random spark, which caused severe detonation. With the mini, a faulty computer could cause irregular spark timing as well as irregular direct injection of the gas, which will make noise.

If oil starvation was the cause of all the clatter, why would stopping and restarting the motor sometimes clear the problem? Has there been any evidence of oil starvation on parts that were replaced to address the problem? If oil starvation was the problem, would the noise not occur every time after an oil and filter change?

I am not saying that there is not an oiling problem, just offering another possibility.

Dan

 

I'm pretty sure MINI has traced the issue to a faulty Cam Chain tensioner. They'll replace it and it goes away for a while, then comes back. Leads me to believe that perhaps the design itself is faulty and needs to be modified.

The noise I've heard doesn't sound spark/misfire related. Modern car computers are so sophisticated that they COMPLETELY shut down the cylinder when a misfire occurs. If your car was misfiring you'd know it. You'd be in limp mode faster than you could snap your fingers.

 

IMHO Tom of Michigan Minis has the best handle on this issue. He attributes it to poor design of the HLA's (hydraulic lash adjusters) which permits quick bleed-out of the oil, and slow return. His analysis is engineering oriented. Most other commentary is experiential and speculative. The link is below.

http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/in...&topic=3115.90

 

well worth the time of reading it. Now I wonder if MINI will actually check this out and impliment a solution!

Matt

 

IMHO, BMW/Mini will not acknowledge any flaws. They will change design for new cars without announcing it, and for older cars, do bandaids like recommending 0 weight oil. Even when the E46 M3 engines were spontaneously blowing up (throwing rods), BMW never acknowledged a problem. Since this is not a safety issue, NTSA will not force a recall. You are on your own on this issue as the wear will probably not be excessive until warranty has expired. It is all about $$ to BMW.

 

eventually BMW did acknowledge the problem with the S54 (just not the ones in the E36/7 E36/8) and did a voluntary recall or issued a service bulletin of the bearings.

 

Thanks for your correction. Back when I had an E30 M3 I followed the sticky thread in the Roadfly forums which logged the blown engines. I stopped following it after a year or so. I'm glad the problem was finally acknowledged. Of course, that catastrophic problem was much more severe than what the R56 owners face.

I have a 2003 R53 and when I start up I get a quick moment of chain lash noise before the chain tensioner builds up pressure. Not a big deal yet and certainly not a complaint here. My E30 M3 with over 115,000 miles would make a lot more noise. The hot ticket with it was to upgrade to the E36 chain tensioner, which I did with excellent results.

The current R56 problem, which I have only vicariously experienced via the wonderfulness of the internet and Youtube, seems much more prolonged, noisy and worrisome than what I did and do experience.

 

Interesting - I've been able to reproduce this problem on my 2008 Clubman now three times. All three instances of this issue happened when I washed my car (but not due to washing it itself). Here is the sequence that causes it for my Clubman.

1) Started car first thing in morning and backed it out of garage to driveway. Did not give it much of a chance to warm up. No engine clatter at this time.
2) After washing car, started car and pulled into garage to do detail work. Again, did not get much of a chance to warm up and there was no engine clatter.
3) After detailing the car and it has been sitting in the garage for a couple of hours I go to start the car to take it on a drive and this is where the engine clatter will start. The clatter lasts for a couple of miles.

I will have to try this again on another day, but I know for a fact that two of the three times the engine clatter started was following the above sequence and all three times the issue happened when the car was driven less then a mile.

What does this all mean? The only observation I can make (with my car) is that this issue seems to happen when the car is not sufficiently warmed up and it is driven less then a mile (again, for my car). Does this pattern seem to fit anyone elses car on here? Again, just posting some observations about this issue.

 

is your drive way on a incline?

 

Nope, my driveway is nice and flat. Also, the temperature this morning when the issue happened was around 85 degrees outside.

 

I had the service guys do this but on a slope . I knew it would make the noise and it did . Didnt help they did nothing for me .

 

Korby, what did the service guys tell you after they heard it? Which response did you get from the service guys:

a) "thats the 1st time I've encountered this problem"
b) "that sound is normal for this engine"
c) "we'll escalate to MINI/BMW and get to the bottom of this for you. We're very concerned after hearing that"
d) other (please provide further detail)

 

taskmaster: when it happened to mine that was exactly what happened. The MINI is complaining to the owner "why didn't you take me for a ride after a bath!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

 

We could all redline it at start up and blow the valves. We will get MININA's attention.

 

B it's bleed down from the lifters .

 

I had the chatter for just a few seconds after starting the other day in 90 degree temps! The car had been parked on an incline (nose down) all day while I was at work.

 

The cold chatter really should have not have happenned during warmer temperature (spring/summer). however, I agree that the chatter subsides after the car warms-up within 4 to 5 minutes.

 

The cold chatter really should have not have happenned during warmer temperature (spring/summer). however, I agree that the chatter subsides after the car warms-up within 4 to 5 minutes.

 

The cold chatter really should have not have happenned during warmer temperature (spring/summer). however, I agree that the chatter subsides after the car warms-up within 4 to 5 minutes.

 

I have been reading up on this issue, though fortunately I haven't heard it on my car yet. I just have a couple of questions/comments;

1) this month in Roundel the technical advisor for BMWCCA answered a question about valve clatter in a BMW engine. The individual was told by the dealer to go out and drive his car at 5,000 rpm for 2 or 3 minutes. The technical advisor noted that americans tend to drive cars more gently than Europeans and the the HLA's may not be getting enough oil pressure. Could this be an issue in the Mini? Among those of you with the problems, how aggressively do you drive your cars?

2) if the service advisors are telling you the noise is normal, why not drive the crap out of it? Not abusive, but zing that engine up to 4500 rpm's before shifting. Otherwise you may baby a defective engine into lasting till about 60,000 miles when your warranty has expired. I would rather have the engine fail at 20,000 miles and get a new one.

I feel for you guys and have no confidence that I won't be joining you in the near future.

 

The engine clatter doesn't happen all the time.

 

After 21,000 miles, and a year with my 2007 MCSm, I have heard the "cold startup" clatter maybe a dozen times. As others have commented, he weather does not need to be cold for it to happen. In fact, the first time was last summer, after a car wash, with a thunderstorm approaching.

Weather and "after washing the car" seem like recurring themes for other owners, too.

A couple of weeks ago (early June 2008), there was a new, but seemingly related, issue when starting out. The engine lost power four times for only 1/2 second each, while gradually accelerating from a stop. This was over within about 2 minutes. There was no noise or vibration, and the car has run normally ever since.

The clatter happened again last week before I went to a MINI dealer for an (unrelated) installation. So, while I was there, I brought up the cold start noise issue. He said that a factory rep had told him that the noise I described was "normal." Normal or not, he recorded my complaint in my car's service history, for potential future warranty issues.

I have noticed one similarity in all of these cases. There has always been a big change in humidity / air pressure between the time of parking the car and letting it cool down, and occurrence of the phenomenon when starting up.

So it occurs to me: does the computer, which controls fuel delivery, aspiration, ignition timing, valve timing (and whatever else), have sensors that adjust for humidity and/or air pressure? Does the computer take some time to update its settings after startup?

The noise does sound like the valve clatter we got on 1960's and 1970's cars when the ignition timing was way wrong.

Could the cold-start clatter be a result of slow sensor-computer updates and adjustment to the fuel, air, spark, and valves?