I was told my cold start problem was a high ethanol content in my gas...20% vs 10%. Does anybody have any thoughts on curing this problem. I only use 91 octane from reputable stations.

 

"I still think this "problem" is blown way out of proportion. " -- Event-Horizon

I'm sorry but I don't think its possible to say we are over or under estimating the severity of the issue. Since no one, including any one that has posted here thus far, the dealers, or the factory (here and in the UK), can say with certainty what the issue is. So frankly, it could be nothing more than the viscosity of the oil, to the engine ripping itself apart from the inside. I'm not sure what value is provided by insulting our intelligence and telling us we are blowing things out of proportion.

Sbutler20 -- I saw a posting about that earlier and switched to a Shell station that uses 10% Ethanol, and the sound still occurred after as normal even after several tanks of it.

 

I think the point he was trying to get to is, no one has attributed the cold start rattling to any major problem. As far as we know and the claims about how prevalent it might really be, there hasn't been any reports of major engine damage or anything along those lines. Something you'd expect with how supposedly common it is and how long some have already had their cars. Maybe it's just noise and until the noise becomes something more, everyone should just ease up a bit? Kind of like the whole hot bonnet issue, that went nowhere and in the end MINI just said it was normal.

 

They opened up the closed bonnet scoop so there must have been a issue . An engine that sounds like theres rocks in it is normal ?

 

I wonder if I'm in the wrong forum. I should probably clarify my noise is really more of a shaking, stuttering, stalling deal. Rpm's hover around 400rpm and sounds like a lawnmower getting ready to run out of gas then shuts down.

Second start it's better, but still shuts down.

Third time has been a charm...fires up, shoots to about 2K rpm, then settles and it's normal the rest of the day.

 

You mean not normal.

 

Forgot my ? .

 

What brand is your 0w-40?

 

I disagree with the notion that unless there is some form of catastrophic damage to the engine right now that we shouldn't be concerned. There may never be a major engine issue from this, but there could be additional wear which ruins performance or fuel economy. The sound may become persistent that it becomes an issue when trying to resell the vehicle. Or worse future generations of the engine will have resolved the issue, and we will find the residual value of our vehicle diminished greatly. These are all issues that will take time to manifest -- after our warranties are expired. I think we should be putting this much attention to this issue. We aren't blowing things out of proportion we are attempting to protect our investments. MINI isn't going to do that for us, it is not in their best interest to do so.

 

I'm not insulting anyone’s intelligence. I recommend you go back through this post and read the information that was provided about the lifters of the MCS.

This post: http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.0

The reason why BMW isn't saying anything is because this is not a problem. It's also the reason why your service advisor will tell you there is nothing to worry about and that this is "normal" for the car. Not every advisor is going to lie to you. If they knew that it was a problem they would help. You obviously don't believe that every service advisor is going to lie to you, do you?

Trapped air in a lifter isn't going to hurt your engine anymore than normal wear and tear from the dirt in your oil.

I changed my oil to Castrol 0w-30 today. I'll keep you guys informed.

 

I've heard solid lifters, stuck lifters, and collapsed lifters. The sound in the videos is not lifters.

The reason why BMW isn't saying anything is because they have actuaries. They estimate cost, and it's cheaper to lose some customers (who've already spent given their money) than to replace engines. It's nothing new, and all automakers do it - especially when they're faced with the possibility of large recalls.

 

I had an old Miata that the engine would tap like hell every once in a while. If it sat for too long the oil would drain out of the valves and would tap very loudly. If the oil got too old it would tap loudly. Wrong oil and it would tap.

The way to cure the noise was to change the oil and filter, then perform an "Italian Tune-Up" to get the oil back up into the system. Mazda enlarged the oil passages to help cure the issue.

You can search for "Miata HLA noise" or check out the TSB link below.

http://www.miata.net/garage/tsb/s011_91.html

 

It might be worth reading again yourself. There were a few scenarios mentioned where operating your vehicle while it's rattling away could be detrimental to the longevity of the engine. If that is indead what's causing the rattle on cold start. I'll believe it when MINI comes out and addresses the problem. It is however the first theory in which someone has provided a logical and detailed technical explination to back it up... I buy it. It makes sense. But again, it doestn't necessarily make it 100% proof-positive true. I'd say were a ways off from saying this is a non-issue.

MINI wanted my old engine back in the UK ASAP after the new one was installed. You would think that if it was as simple as the HLA system, that they could have diagnosed the issue in less than 8 weeks and fixed the problem by making the necessary lash adjustments and switching oil... but no. Why not?

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest the service advisors will lie to you.

On the other hand it is a sporratic problem. So owners experiencing the rattle who bring it to their dealer's attention face the fact that the techs will likley start it 5-10 times over a day or two and might legitimately not hear anything out of the ordinary. Since what they hear sounds perfectly normal to them (it's a rattly/ticky sounding engine when it's running right), they assume the customer is concerned over nothing. So the report that comes back: "It sounds normal to us".

Again... I don't think MINI would be replacing engines and bring them back to the UK if they weren't concerned that it was somthing more serious.

We'll see. I hope it's that simple. But we'll see.

 

I didn't read every last post to see if this was mentioned but... my local MINI dealer had a clubman coming out party last night and the tech who takes care of my car was there, saw me and was asking about my latest visit, etc blah blah

Anyway, I asked what he knew about this issue and he told me that there was an update to the timing chain tensioner but that even so, the cars are sometimes louder

So for whatever that might be worth...

 

Just a point of clarification... my dealer hasn't been calling the sound normal for some time. They have been working on a solution to the problem. And its not just my dealer, there is a service bulletin on the issue. So I am not sure where all this talk about it being "normal" is coming from. MINI has acknowledged an issue, else there wouldn't be a bulletin on it. MINI last week sent out factory technicians to examine my car. Maybe I should've told them not to bother because they were blowing things out of proportion ;-)

 

Sorry! If trapped air or anything else is causing piston slap, knocks, or any other unusal metalic contact or even fluid to metal shocks that can create that kind of noise, damage is occuring. Wrist pins, piston bearings and/or valves are being destroyed.

 

Sorry I guess I missed where the service bulletin was brought up. That would be awesome if there is one, any more info? If there is one, dealers can no longer claim it is normal and have to address the issue. I thought there was an issue with getting the dealer to recognize it? Is it just getting the dealer to verify that you have the problem?

 

That fact that they sent someone out to check your car and issued a bulletin more or less proves that "they know something's up". They know not every car will do this. I don't think they know what it is, or even if it's the same single thing in every car that rattles.

 

Hey All, Is there anything on Gabe's MotoringFile site on this? Seems that's where this may get some direct attention by MINI and some detail as to what MINI proposes to do, or is working on to address it.

Hasn't happened to me, but it sounds like it very well could be a matter of time. Really bums me out to think about it.

 

so can someone please post this illustrious technical bulletin? Someone must have seen it. The info Event-Horizon is refers to doesn't specifically say it's from a service bulletin and the language doesn't seem like it would come from BMW:For what it's worth, I've had what sounded like a slight misfire for a few seconds after my MCS has been parked on a downhill slope for a while.
I don't know if that related at all or if I'm just stirring the pot.

 

For those of you having this problem in cold weather ( I know some have experienced it in normal temps) your could try an oil that flows better at colder temps. Generally this would mean a 0w30 or 0w40 oil. It might be a good idea to check the pour point and maybe the viscosity index in comparison to the oil currently used. The former would be easier to find.

 

I cannot say exactly what the bulletin says, I can only tell you what my dealer told me. Back in week 1 of January they said there was a MINI rep on site, and he had a yet to be released bulletin regarding the issue. The bulletin, they told me, was about to be published the next week, had procedures outlined to remedy the solution. The first step was to check that date of manufacture of the chain tensioner. Step 2 was to bleed the tensioner. If the sound re-appeared they were to bleed the tensioner for 30 min. And Step 4 was to replace the tensioner.

My car has gone through these steps and I still have the issue. It may be that they never released the bulletin since it failed to fix the cars with the issue?

 

I'm glad to hear that MINI is working on a fix for this problem. A TSB is for dealers only, not the general public to read. I'm sure it will eventually be leaked to the rest of the world. Most TSB's seem to be.

Your dealer is great for sharing info on the problem with you.

In the meantime I'm sure there are people sitting on the fence to see what becomes of this issue before committing to buy an R56 or R55 MCS.

Good luck, I hope you get relief soon.

 

The only bulletin on this issue to leak out to date focuses on the chain tensioner... bleeding air out of it... and if that doesn't work, replacing it.

It has nothing to do with the hydralic lifters and has not fixed the issue for anyone to date.

I wouldn't worry about finding it, since it fixes absolutly nothing.
The quote you grabbed was from another owner on the Michigan MINI site. Not from MINI.

 

Mines back in to stealers on Wednesday night to be with them for a cold start on thursday morning !!! Andy Pringle (BMW/Mini) technical bod is there to pass judgement !!!! I'm not holding my breath!!!!
Just done a 350 mile run this weekend with club and started car this morning (-6) and it sounded like a sack of spanners!!!!