Early May '03 Build, loaded with 33.2 at factory according to MINI USA. I have:
* 1st gear stumble/lurch as clutch engages - most pronounced on first pullaway from full stop after starting car. (always BADLY on the first pull away, 70% rest of the time)
* 2nd & 3rd gear 2500-3500RMP surging / yo-yo (happens 70% of the time)
* 1st gear pullaway 2-3 second complete power loss w/ clutch fully engaged (happens 5% of the time)

 

First post, this probably will be longer than I would care to inflict on even my enemies, so apologies in advance. Short version: built 3rd week of June, stumble present but neither constant nor as pronounced as others have described.
According to the vehicle tracking feature on the mfgr's website, my vehicle's production start date was 13 June (Friday--good thing I was raised a by a devout secular humanist or I'd STILL be knocking wood and throwing salt over my shoulder). The status changed to "awaiting transport" on 20 June; arrived US 10 July and at the San Antonio MINI Center on 12 July---happy birthday to me:D---with the wrong wheels :evil:. Finally took delivery 19 July. Noticed the stumble in 1st gear almost immediately, but it was not too overwhelming, and I attributed it to my getting used to the rather responsive accelerator and transitioning back to manual trans after two years. Been busy driving, not surfing, and only last night did I find this website and the stumble thread; I quickly came to the conclusion that the problem may not be solely attributable to poor neurons and motor functions on my part.
Hit 1500 miles today (the mileage builds fast with a daily commute of 80 miles, but that commute is now ever-so-much more enjoyable than before), and will try to pay more attention for symptoms. Over this first month, I have noticed the stumble only in first gear, (my mental designation for it, as an uninitiated FNG, was hesitation or hiccup). It is not a constant feature, and is most pronounced before the engine is at normal operating temp.
I have also noticed (as I did in the test-drive vehicle) that the car is a bit sluggish when making a turn in 2nd gear. Since the acceleration comes back quickly with thoughtful application of pressure on the pedal, I attributed it to a slight lag as the SC spools up and perhaps a personal problem that I am going to have deal with by modifying my old driving habits and trying not to take the corners like a blue-hair (I must confess that I have been delivered from the dark side and have to remain attentive to the fact that I am no longer driving one of those useless large vehicles that exhibit handling characteristics on a level equal or even superior to those of, um, let's say, a shopping cart?).
The only other noticeable problem relating to the engine which I have seen others comment upon is rough startup; it has never died and usually finds the stride after 3 to 5 seconds, but I hope this is not a portent of things getting worse when the cold weather arrives. I have been able to reduce the rough start somewhat by turning off the A/C when I shut the car off (here in South TX, though, that's a challenge to remember).
As stated earlier, I'll now start to look for the problems that others here have mentioned and will post a follow up in a month or so (much more succinct, I promise).
Final comment--yeah, this problem is kind of a drag, but I think that these moments of annoyance are more than compensated for by the reactions and responses that the car gets from all manner of citizens; my MCS seems to get more attention, day-in & day-out, than my 64 Corvette roadster (which, believe me, has its share of mechanical idiosyncracies). Bottom line: Digging it more and more each day.

 

July 2003 build - only 500 miles - no stumble or yo-yo yet.

My mechanic has a January 2003 MCS - it has both the stumble and the yo-yo.

 

August '02 build.
1st-2nd yo-yo much of the time.....slight 1st-2nd stumble very rarely.

 

June 13, 2003 build date. Yes, my MCS was born on Friday the 13th and DOES HAVE THE STUMBLE in first gear. I've tried turning DSC off, helps a little, but finesse and increased RPMs before letting out the clutch seem to help the most. Problem is, if I'm in traffic, I can't rev the engine to 2500-3000 RPM because the MCS bolts off the line, not a bad thing but if there's a slower person in front of me, and there almost always is, it's stumble city baby! Only other time I don't get too much of a stumble at lower RPMs is if I'm on a hill and there's resistance on the engine i.e. the hill. As long as the engine is "working" to pull the car, the stumble is mostly non-existant. Don't mean to bludgeon a deceased equine but there you go.

 

Picked it up last week in April. Had the stumble then, still has it. Been slippomg the clutch to ease it, and really upset about it.

 

My MCS was built in Mid-July, Delivered August 7th.

I have 300 miles on it today... I have noticed the stumble a few times, but as it's been ages since I've driven stick, I thought it was poor clutch use on my part. With careful concentration, I've been able to avoid the experience. I will say that if I start in low RPM's, it is SLOOOW going until things rev up... it's not unlike the spool up in a turbo car. We'll see how thing progress.

Ben

 

MCS built in June, picked up in July.

I have the first gear stumble on first drive off after starting the car. The yo-yo in 2nd and somewhat 3rd. Sometimes a stumble in second. First gear lug at anything under 1700 rpm's. Very poor off the line performance with A/C on, to the point of giving 2500 rpm and feathering the clutch to keep from lugging the car when taking off.

I too have noticed that some days the car runs stronger than others. I would chalk it up to weather but its been pretty hot all days.

I'm trying to remain optimistic that MINI is taking as long as they are due to employing better quality control than they used in the release that generated this stumble.

Wastik.

 

April 2003 Build Date
Yes, I have the stumble
MCS

 

If you think this issue is dangerous, and certainly the unpredictable lugging/bogging/very slow acceleration off the line has the potential to be, you can fill out a safety complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

My complaint number is: 10032883.

There are so many terms for these issues we're dealing with, it gets confusing. Just for the record, we're dealing with three issues related to engine management software:

1. The car jerks when the clutch is fully released in 1st gear when accelerating from a dead stop. This is a momentary loss of power that occurs in a split second and feels as if the clutch was released too fast. At times it can be mild, other times violent. The first occurence after the car has been started is generally the worst.

2. The car begins to accelerate then suddenly and without warning loses nearly all power, very slowly accelerating no matter how much throttle is applied. After 2 - 3 seconds of this slow acceleration, the car very quickly accelerates. This feels very much like you've tried to launch the car from a dead stop in third gear.

3. The car's throttle, usually in 2nd or 3rd gear, pulsates, so that if the acceleration were plotted, it would produce a small sine wave with 5 to 10 cycles. This is the so-called yo-yo.

I was expecting a fix soon, so I have been quietly living out my frustration with the poor drivablilty of my April 2003 build MCS. The last I heard, we're looking a December 2003 for a fix. This info was reported as coming from Erik Luchsinger (sp?), the regional MINIUSA rep here in the South/Southeast area. I hope you'll agree that December is TOO LONG to wait.

I want to hear a response from MINIUSA that gives specifics: what causes this, when will it be rectified, what is the hold-up, who is working on this, etc.

See ya,
JS

 

A follow-up. I just called MINIUSA 8/15/2003 at 3:20PM EDT.

I asked for specifics on the engine management software problems we've been experiencing.

MINIUSA's response:

1. We are aware of the problem and are experiencing high call volume over the issue.

2. The fix will be coming soon.

I asked for specifics. None could be given. I told the rep that I had heard that their regional rep had stated that it could be December 2003 before a fix was available.

MINIUSA's response: "That wouldn't surprise me."

I explained that I didn't think December 2003 was "soon".
I asked for anything additional they could tell me. NOTHING.

This is extremely frustrating to say the least.

See ya,
JS

 

Mid June, 2003 build date, July 5 delivery
I have noticed the stumble or hesitation mainly in 1st gear with AC on a hot day. More revs starting out helps but requires alot of clutch slip, then lurches. Have not noticed much yo yo or surging at all. On a cool mornings with no AC it runs smoother and much quicker starting off. I just thought this was due the small engine and need for SC to spool up. If I start out at low revs the mini is very sluggish until about 2000 or so RPM, then she goes! I think a lighter aluminum flywheel would help since she would tend to rev up quicker before the clutch starts to grab. My clutch starts to grab almost immediately, right off the floor.

 

June/July Build/Pickup. 970 miles on car. Have to baby the clutch in 1st gear to make a non-slugish start. So I guess I have the stumble.

I also have a problem when I first start the engine it idles for about 5-15 seconds then the idle become rought, drops to around 600-700 rpms, almost dies, then smooths back out. I have had it straight up die on my twice doing that. It only seems to happen if haven't driven the car in 4 or so hours.

 

Build date -19 June 2003
Picked up - 19 July 2003
650 miles, so far

Yes, Stumble is very present right at the start, and some occasional bogging down on start also--nothing too drastic though. I am a patient motorer, so I will see how many months/years it takes MINI to correct this mistake and offer us all a recall with a solid fix.

 

Build Date: June 2003
Delivery: July 18, 2003

Yes, I notice a slight stumble in first gear. Also noticed this in the two other Cooper S cars that I test drove before buying mine!

It is less noticable with the AC off.

Contrary to other posts, I found that just holding a higher RPM (2500-3000) when releasing the clutch, does not make it go away.

I have found that by letting the clutch out slower, I can almost fully aviod it and still take off pretty fast. Furthermore, I don't seem to notice it as much because I have changed my driving habbits to accomidate it.

Maybe it has something to do with the electronic throttle... anyone think of that? Considering that the electronic throttle (drive-by-wire) is a relatively new technology and is only available on few of today's production cars, it would not surprise me if it has some minor problems that have not been worked out yet. I'm sure that if so many of us here have noticed it, MINI testers must also be aware of it. Maybe the solution is not an easy fix. It is a new car only 2 years in production.

Best advice is to be aware of the issue and Motor carefully!

 

I took delivery of my MCS in November - no stumble. In June, I took it to the dealer to have them correct a cold start problem. They re-flashed the memory and whaddaya know, it stumbled! The ECU was sent to BMW (somewhere) and evaluated. When the ECU was returned, my dealer said the stumble was worse than before. They replaced the ECU with a new one and the stumble went away. It now starts when it's cold, too! I do not know what software version is currently installed.

 

June build

July 26 pickup

1051 miles

Stumble and yo yo.

:???:

 

Good post, Geoman! I think you got it covered. I guess everything really IS bigger in Texas. Everything, that is, except your Mini! (lol, I am so damn funny!). Just a note. I had the stuble but only till my ECU was replaced by the dealer. Glad to hear that you like your car so much. I feel the same way about mine. After 9 months of daily driving I still get the same pleasure out of the car that I did on my first drive. I also just love the look of that nose in the parking lot at work. **** Howdy!! Enjoy.

 

March 5th yes

 

Just for the record although many of you know my story. October 02 build no stumble until May 03 when the dealer reflashed my ECU trying to fix "the bog". A period of several seconds of hesitation in first gear. All that hesitation got compressed into what we all know as the stumble.

In July 03, MINI USA agrees to fix the stumble by working on the ECU in NJ. Upon it's return to the dealer the car would not start! :???: ECU sent to England for analysis and new software. Installed on the car by the dealer July 25, '03.

Car still stumbles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :???: :???: :???:

Waiting for December!

Graham

 

Yep,

Add 1 more to the list. July 18 build delivered August 7th. I was so hopefull that it would be fixed by then. My stumble is very unpredictable. I have had to resort to slipping the clutch heavily at every takeover to keep from get myself killed or at the very least embarrassed. I have just over 600 miles on it and it realy feels that my clutch has lost a few inches from it's pickup point since picking up the car just a few weeks ago, and that pisses me off more than the stumble. If and when they get this fixed, I think alot of peoples clutches will be replaced ahead of there time. My dealer has been asked 3 times find out what version was loaded and so far nothing. Apparently this isn't added to the car's build records ? My car at times will yo-yo and other times not, I can here and feel a change in the motor when pulling through 2000-3000 range, as if the motor was suddenly under more load. This seems less noticeable when under full throttle, but that may only be because I am focusing more on the tach at the time. Is this the "wall" I am reading about ?

I like this car and hate this car all in the same commute. Mostly based on how many repeated take offs I've done in the last few minutes. I mentioned this to my dealer and he suggested changing gas stations. I did and the problem seemed better, but soon returned. I filled with 94 octane at 1.99 a gallon and this morning it did the same thing 20 minutes into my drive. It's not hot enough here in Michigan to blame ambient temps and the a/c was off.

I have spent the last 8 years driving 3 manual transmission cars, four bangers everyone. Now I am not a experienced racer at all, but felt more than confident enough in all the other car to never worry about rush hour, up hill take offs and the like. I have stalled this car more in just the first 2 weeks of ownership than the other 3 in 8 years. Screw this NEON motor, they should have fitted the SRT-4 motor in here instead.
Also, (ranting now)
first and second gear seem way taller than my previous car. I wouldn't have thought of grabbing 1st gear at all but a complete stop in my last 3 cars. Trying to grab 2nd while still rolling in this car produces a very long wait time and casues me to fall way behind traffic. Grabbing first seems nearly perfect which makes me think it could have been shorter or lower without being considered a creeper gear. Maybe traffic and driving habits in Europe are vastly different, but I personally feel this problem would have been eleviated somewhat with a shorter 1st and second gear. This may have caused a extra shift before the magic 62mph that is used over there to rate the quickness of cars, but I personally would rather have a car that was less impressive on paper but much easier to live with in stop and go traffic.
The whole point of going supercharger instead of turbo or high revving normally aspirated, ala v-tech seems completely lost on this car. Would a 100 horsepower per liter normally aspirated engine really have been any worse down low ? Based on my first 2 weeks of ownership, I have doubts.

 

'03 MCS 6/27 Production Date, 7/17 Pickup.
Yes, I've had the stumble in 1st gear from day one. I've found I can minimize the stumble with very slow starts. How do you do 0-60 in 6.9 if you have to baby 1st gear for 20 seconds to avoid the stumble?

 

July 4 build date.

Stumble only in first or second, only when turning, and for much less than a second.

Yoyo in second, but honestly, I think it is a trait, and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't think a 2600 lb 1.6 liter powered car is going to be incredibly smooth.

As for the December time frame, that doesn't surprise me either. I work for a tier one automotive supplier. Any programming change is an emissions-related issue. Any significant change will have to go through several stages of validation, from bench testing to vehicle testing, including hot and cold climate testing, PLUS be approved by the various regulatory agencies, before it could be introduced to a vehicle. And all of this is AFTER they find a solution.

I'm sure there are entire teams of engineers working this issue, and I'm sure they'll fix it. But it does take some time. Making a federal case out of this (literally, by going to the NHTSA) might force them to release a less-proven fix, which won't help anyone.

 

March '03 build.
Have stumble.
Currently have v 34.0 installed.

 

May '03 MCS, v 33.2 software. Three different types of stumble and the yo-yo.