Oil Consumption
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1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Oil Consumption
I have a question about oil usage; About 6 yrs ago I bought a new BMW 5 series, which consumes oil like there's no tomorrow. According to BMW, it's because I was too gentle during its first thousand miles, and the gasket seals (or something!) didn't bed down properly, so they leak slightly. Will this happen with the MINI? What's the best way to run it in initially?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
For both of our MINIs, we followed the break-in schedule in the owner's manual. My wife's car needed about 3/4 quart of "top-off" oil at 3,000 miles, but hasn't needed any additional oil between changes during the subsequent 25,000 miles. (And that's with the factory-recommended oil change intervals).
Mine only needed about 1/2 quart of top-off in the first 12,000 miles, and none in the 18,000 miles since then.
Mine only needed about 1/2 quart of top-off in the first 12,000 miles, and none in the 18,000 miles since then.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 0
From: Bryan Texas
Hmm. Sounds like the dealership has it covered both ways, depending on your driving habits. "Burns oil? You were too ______ during break in"
Fill in the blank with whatever trait is most likely.
The owners manual has some suggestions about keeping the tach and speed under X for X many miles. Most followed that with little trouble. Not everybody walks the same path, which is why there are so many different kinds of shoes....if you get my drift.
I say go by the manufacturer's suggestion. At least then you don't start off argueing with them.
Fill in the blank with whatever trait is most likely.
The owners manual has some suggestions about keeping the tach and speed under X for X many miles. Most followed that with little trouble. Not everybody walks the same path, which is why there are so many different kinds of shoes....if you get my drift.
I say go by the manufacturer's suggestion. At least then you don't start off argueing with them.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 6
My gal's PT Cruiser was taken to an autocross with barely 2000 miles on it. After that day it has sucked a quart down every 1000 miles, sometimes every 800 miles. It has 125k on it now. Chrysler says that is "normal" consumpution for the engine. In the 2k before the autocross it hadn't used any oil.
I broke my Mini in by the owner's manual recommendation, for the most part. I did hit 5k on it a couple times after about 400 miles and didn't baby it around. It hasn't used any oil in the 2k miles I've driven it. Never did any full throttle starts or accelerating.
I broke my Mini in by the owner's manual recommendation, for the most part. I did hit 5k on it a couple times after about 400 miles and didn't baby it around. It hasn't used any oil in the 2k miles I've driven it. Never did any full throttle starts or accelerating.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
Wow - I wish I had Chrysler's chutzpah to claim that one quart of oil every 800-1000 miles was "normal" for a car with 2000 miles on it!
Now, the owner's manual for my Mercedes said that one quart per 1,000 km was "normal", but that was a) a 1972 Mercedes, and b) a car that held eight quarts of oil in the crankcase.
I've autocrossed my MINI plenty of times over the last 30,000 miles, with the first time being right at 1200 miles, and it doesn't burn any oil between changes at all.
Now, the owner's manual for my Mercedes said that one quart per 1,000 km was "normal", but that was a) a 1972 Mercedes, and b) a car that held eight quarts of oil in the crankcase.
I've autocrossed my MINI plenty of times over the last 30,000 miles, with the first time being right at 1200 miles, and it doesn't burn any oil between changes at all.
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Its for motorcycles, but I like the concept.
To add, letting the engine decel from high rpm from 3rd gear will wash any assembly lube off the cyl walls and quickly seat rings for maximum compression and minimal oil consumtion. On new engines you can actually make them smoke pretty heavy by doing this until the rings are seated (about 30 minutes). If done right you can avoid piston slap, oil bypass, and lost compression for years; you'll have a much stronger, cleaner engine.
Auto manufacturors are against this however.
To add, letting the engine decel from high rpm from 3rd gear will wash any assembly lube off the cyl walls and quickly seat rings for maximum compression and minimal oil consumtion. On new engines you can actually make them smoke pretty heavy by doing this until the rings are seated (about 30 minutes). If done right you can avoid piston slap, oil bypass, and lost compression for years; you'll have a much stronger, cleaner engine.
Auto manufacturors are against this however.
Breaking in a motorcycle is very important. Especially so with something like the gixer 600. Knowing the reasons that it is important will help you understand, and motivate you to do, maintenance on your bike. The breaking-in period with this particular motorcycle is going to play a direct role in how long your engine lasts, how frequently you'll have to make major repairs, long-term performance and maintenance, the list is long.
The breaking-in period with this bike should not exceed a tank, or a tank-and-a-half of fuel. For most of the first tank, maybe three-quarters, keep the engine r.p.m. under 6500 rpms. Do not run that first bit of fuel out of it all in one sitting. It would be a good idea to operate the bike in intervals of about 20 minutes per ride for that first portion of the break-in. Remembering to keep the rpm down, and just generally keep babying heck out of it.
This first stage of the break-in, there are a lot of things going on. Most importantly, the motor is getting hot, and cold a bunch which causes expansion and contraction. As this occurs bearing journals cut new paths in their races, the mains do something similar and, in general, all of the, "turning", parts are lining themselves up, and shedding material in the process.
Additionally, there will be fuel-residue-build up in the intake system that will be good for the bike. This build up takes awhile, with the engine in operation, and the bike will always be a little lean until this forms. Don't want to be too heavy handed until it can take full drinks of fuel.
The idea with this first stage is to just get the bike up to operating temp and run it for 10 to 15 minutes. Go do your accessory shopping. While you are out get a tire gauge and good hand pump. Also avoid letting the bike idle for extended periods of time. This can cause carbon build up that you would normally burn out with high rpms and you don't want that right now.
Once you feel you have thoroughly loosened the bike up, it is time to seat the rings. The, "rings", being the piston-rings. Whose job it is to seal for compression, and keep crankcase oil in the crankcase. Babying the bike so far has had one adverse effect. If you don't get the engine good and hot a couple of times, the cylinder walls will, "glaze". This will prevent the rings from seating properly. Which can lead to burned oil in the combustion chamber (Smokey exhaust), or low compression, or both. Very bad, this, "glaze".
To seat the rings, you've got to kick its butt a little. DON'T DO ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY DANGEROUS TO ACHIEVE THIS!! The idea is that you need to get the engine pretty hot, and then place a significant amount of demand on it. That is to say, you are going to get it good and warm and then wring its neck. Keep in mind that you have a still very tight, brand new engine here. Don't break it. And the focus should be on making big rpm sweeps, in its tallest gears. You want the engine to be gaining rpm quickly, more than you are looking for a particular rpm limit to aim at. How long this takes, is up to you. You'll need to be operating a very high performance motorcycle at the peak of its performance level, for little bursts of time. Be very careful while you are doing this.
Once you've wrung it out a little go back to 6500 rpm baby mode back to the garage. The breaking in of the motorcycle is complete. You are not done however. Once the motorcycle is broken in, you need to have a talk with your mechanic. You'll definitely need to change the crankcase oil IMMEDIATELY after it is broken in. There will be metal particles in your oil at this point and they need to be removed. It is then that you should decide what type of oil you are going to use, filter, etc..
I usually drop the oil, go synthetic, and top dollar oil filter. Don't do any of this until it is good and broken in. Synthetics are so slick that they can prohibit a good ring seal, just like glazing. You should really be getting this advice from a certified Suzuki mechanic, but when you do, they'll tell you just what I did. Have fun and be safe.
The breaking-in period with this bike should not exceed a tank, or a tank-and-a-half of fuel. For most of the first tank, maybe three-quarters, keep the engine r.p.m. under 6500 rpms. Do not run that first bit of fuel out of it all in one sitting. It would be a good idea to operate the bike in intervals of about 20 minutes per ride for that first portion of the break-in. Remembering to keep the rpm down, and just generally keep babying heck out of it.
This first stage of the break-in, there are a lot of things going on. Most importantly, the motor is getting hot, and cold a bunch which causes expansion and contraction. As this occurs bearing journals cut new paths in their races, the mains do something similar and, in general, all of the, "turning", parts are lining themselves up, and shedding material in the process.
Additionally, there will be fuel-residue-build up in the intake system that will be good for the bike. This build up takes awhile, with the engine in operation, and the bike will always be a little lean until this forms. Don't want to be too heavy handed until it can take full drinks of fuel.
The idea with this first stage is to just get the bike up to operating temp and run it for 10 to 15 minutes. Go do your accessory shopping. While you are out get a tire gauge and good hand pump. Also avoid letting the bike idle for extended periods of time. This can cause carbon build up that you would normally burn out with high rpms and you don't want that right now.
Once you feel you have thoroughly loosened the bike up, it is time to seat the rings. The, "rings", being the piston-rings. Whose job it is to seal for compression, and keep crankcase oil in the crankcase. Babying the bike so far has had one adverse effect. If you don't get the engine good and hot a couple of times, the cylinder walls will, "glaze". This will prevent the rings from seating properly. Which can lead to burned oil in the combustion chamber (Smokey exhaust), or low compression, or both. Very bad, this, "glaze".
To seat the rings, you've got to kick its butt a little. DON'T DO ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY DANGEROUS TO ACHIEVE THIS!! The idea is that you need to get the engine pretty hot, and then place a significant amount of demand on it. That is to say, you are going to get it good and warm and then wring its neck. Keep in mind that you have a still very tight, brand new engine here. Don't break it. And the focus should be on making big rpm sweeps, in its tallest gears. You want the engine to be gaining rpm quickly, more than you are looking for a particular rpm limit to aim at. How long this takes, is up to you. You'll need to be operating a very high performance motorcycle at the peak of its performance level, for little bursts of time. Be very careful while you are doing this.
Once you've wrung it out a little go back to 6500 rpm baby mode back to the garage. The breaking in of the motorcycle is complete. You are not done however. Once the motorcycle is broken in, you need to have a talk with your mechanic. You'll definitely need to change the crankcase oil IMMEDIATELY after it is broken in. There will be metal particles in your oil at this point and they need to be removed. It is then that you should decide what type of oil you are going to use, filter, etc..
I usually drop the oil, go synthetic, and top dollar oil filter. Don't do any of this until it is good and broken in. Synthetics are so slick that they can prohibit a good ring seal, just like glazing. You should really be getting this advice from a certified Suzuki mechanic, but when you do, they'll tell you just what I did. Have fun and be safe.
Last edited by unclemeat; Feb 26, 2008 at 01:29 PM.
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OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
It's been a few years since I kept a car past 200,000 miles, but the only oil consumption I've ever gotten has been when the valve guide seals begin to wear and you get the tell-tale "puff" of blue smoke when you start the car for the first time in the morning. And there's nothing you can do during break-in (or even during the lifetime of the car) that will prevent the guide seals from eventually shrinking and allowing oil to leak past.
I personally don't think that cylinder/ring wear is as much of an issue as it used to be, decades ago. I know quite a few people that picked up their MINI on one coast and immediately drove it home to the other coast without going through any formal break-in procedure. That would have absolutely *trashed* an engine if you had done it 30 years ago.
I personally don't think that cylinder/ring wear is as much of an issue as it used to be, decades ago. I know quite a few people that picked up their MINI on one coast and immediately drove it home to the other coast without going through any formal break-in procedure. That would have absolutely *trashed* an engine if you had done it 30 years ago.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 6
It's been a few years since I kept a car past 200,000 miles, but the only oil consumption I've ever gotten has been when the valve guide seals begin to wear and you get the tell-tale "puff" of blue smoke when you start the car for the first time in the morning. And there's nothing you can do during break-in (or even during the lifetime of the car) that will prevent the guide seals from eventually shrinking and allowing oil to leak past.
I personally don't think that cylinder/ring wear is as much of an issue as it used to be, decades ago. I know quite a few people that picked up their MINI on one coast and immediately drove it home to the other coast without going through any formal break-in procedure. That would have absolutely *trashed* an engine if you had done it 30 years ago.
I personally don't think that cylinder/ring wear is as much of an issue as it used to be, decades ago. I know quite a few people that picked up their MINI on one coast and immediately drove it home to the other coast without going through any formal break-in procedure. That would have absolutely *trashed* an engine if you had done it 30 years ago.
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
Likes: 1
From: gilroy Ca
hmmm...my mini has over 100k on it and and I've yet to come across a oil consumption issue. the only time I even needed to add oil is when I had an oil leak from a leaky drain plug. thats it. it doesn't really even "use up" any oil. I wouldn't worry so much on your new mini. just follow the break in procedure.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Me as well. I was gently with my MC during break in then did a break in oil change at 1200 and always have a full dip stick since. On my 1999 CR-V I was gentle with it as well doing a 1000 mile initial oil change. It now has 96,000 miles and when I have the oil changed it still registers full to this day.
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,101
Likes: 229
From: York, Pennsylvania
My 1982 VW Rabbit went through a quart every thousand miles during the
late 90's and early 00's, but that's a different story.
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,101
Likes: 229
From: York, Pennsylvania
Those old VW Rabbits had valve seal guides that would get hard and shrink
and allow oil past. I could have replaced them with the newer type which
held up better but I never got around to it.
and allow oil past. I could have replaced them with the newer type which
held up better but I never got around to it.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 677
Likes: 20
From: NY, USA
My personal experience with VWs is that sometimes you get one that doesn't use oil and sometimes you don't. The diesel Beetle I have with 213k miles that I'm replacing with the MINI doesn't use any oil.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 895
Likes: 2
From: Canton, GA
My motorcycle is 3 years old and has over 86,000 miles; it doesn't burn a drop of oil (8,000 mile intervals on changes) and was never babied...
Some motors are more delicate --- some just start using oil. Sometimes the rings line up perfectly and oil gets by; some are a sloppy fit. I've seen some with gouges in the cylinder walls that look like a chisel was taken to them.
Most of my engines that used oil have been due to valve guide seals though.
Some motors are more delicate --- some just start using oil. Sometimes the rings line up perfectly and oil gets by; some are a sloppy fit. I've seen some with gouges in the cylinder walls that look like a chisel was taken to them.
Most of my engines that used oil have been due to valve guide seals though.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Boston,MA
My daughter's '01 Beetle 2.0 used oil from day 1, around 1-2 qts/1,000 miles.Many people complained to VW about their beetles using a lot of oil and were told it was "normal" for that engine.
She never complained to VW though, just kept adding oil with every filup.She just replaced the VW at 170,000 miles with a new MINI.The VW was running fine when she sold it.
She never complained to VW though, just kept adding oil with every filup.She just replaced the VW at 170,000 miles with a new MINI.The VW was running fine when she sold it.
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