Ah now I smell what you're steping in...

 

We're going down the rabbit hole with this one. Good luck trying to enforce any of it.

People will say/post whatever they want, moderators will moderate approprately, and that will be it. Creating complicated rules about what someone should do before the post and what they shouls say when is utterly pointless. Very few people will adhere to them voluntarily, and we'll end up back at square one. Or better yet, future "attack" threads will also include people complaining about the fact that the poster didn't follow the new "attack thread" rules.

 

If there were no such rules, this most recent thread would still be active, probably several pages long by now, yet with no vendor side of the story. With hundreds of views, if not 1,000+, the vendor’s name would have gone through the ringer. Once his side of the story is officially shared, and even if totally, 100% redeeming, there will be those who don’t read that post… they walk away with at best mixed feelings about that vendor, if not outright negative ones. The damage has been done, not to mention the time spent and frustration encountered on behalf of the vendor to deal with the situation. That is the cost or impact here that we are trying to avoid – not the denial to share an experience.

I’m not a vendor, so why the heck do I care? I’m a customer, so I should try to tilt the tables more in my favor... At all costs, and the expense of what is right or ethical, no way. I know what it feels like to be a burned customer; I’m sure we all have our stories. Having forged a good relationship with two our vendors, I’ve had the opportunity to share in the pain and frustration they’ve endured when inappropriately attacked. The impact on their lives, personal and professional, should not be underestimated. It hurts, but it would be understandable and acceptable, if justified. If there cannot be resolution in one’s private transactions, and after properly exhausting those communications, take it here for a discussion and to share with us all.

Transacting is a series of personal decisions; everything from what product to what vendor, to when, how to pay, etc. These steps are carried-out daily, in our personal lives. When one is not satisfied with his purchase, for whatever reason, the same personal and private approach that started this whole process should be continued to an end: resolution/agreement, or un-resolved differences. Just in these last two instances (there have been others), it left the private realm before it should have. Rule #1 is common sense, but for some, apparently not, thus the need. Being professional, courteous, and respectful applies to both (all sides) in a transaction. Sure, I too want to hear beefs about a vendor, but not ones that are without merit as that wastes my time, and also negatively impacts the vendor.

The vendors are an integral part of our community, and not just because they are paying members. If we only had the likes of Dinan to satiate our performance aspirations, we would have been ignored for quite a while, not to mention the lack of goodies to choose from. While we now have a butt-load of vendors, quite a few are simply resellers, which is fine, and needed. We have a handful of vendors that actually make products for us. They research, design and manufacture stuff for our MINI’s. We are not talking corporations here, but one-man shows. The vast majority of go-fast parts that many of us have are because of these guys. I appreciate their contributions and efforts, and have come to understand that it is not easy to do so. Getting wrongly hammered where they do the vast majority of their business is simply not fair, and should not be tolerated by the vendors, nor the folks who appreciate having them onboard.

Sure there are occasional threads praising a vendor’s products or service. People read these, and take them for what they are worth, like everything else in our lives. The only negative ramification is that one starts to think positively of that vendor (assuming the vendor doesn’t deserve such). Yes it would be nice if hp claims were not exaggerated as they often are here, but this is so in other forums, with other makes/models and even by manufacturers. Heck, reading labels and listening to commercials requires a critical eye and ear to make sure one is not being misled. It’s a reality in society, and I don’t know of anyone older than 8 years of age who doesn’t question the claims of those pedaling products. The MINI community and NAM are not immune to this pervasive and unfortunate reality. There are an abundance of laws and consumer rights organizations to protect customers from abuse. NAM doesn’t then need rules when such laws exist to protect us in our chosen transactional relationships (especially since these exist outside of NAM).

It is when these dealings come to NAM that things start to change. I’m not a lawyer, and certainly don’t pretend to be one, but with degrees in the legal field, and a fair share of legal experience, I can safely say that is stuff is borderline slanderous – ie, against the law. If the above stated concerns are not sufficient enough reason for NAM to implement rules, this would be another motivating factor (this space being used for potentially illegal purposes). I’m currently under the impression that NAM is moving in the desired direction, and I’m truly happy to see that. Our vendors deserve this safeguard… and the rest of us need to be spared mis-information.

 

While I should probably stay out of this I feel I need to say something. As a business owner who thrives on recommendations and referals for my business I find some problems with wanting to add a forum for complaints.

You are fueling just that, complaints. In this world the old saying that you can find 10 people to complain but only 1 to praise is all too true.

It is easy to get people to **** and moan about a bad experience but to actually get someone to sing the praises of a wonderful experience happens all to infrequently!

A complaint forum is not what we need. A rating forum may be a better idea but again we need to be cautious about what we are trying to accomplish. Who will ultimately and most often post in that forum? In reality the people who are upset about something will post more often than the people who have wonderful things to say.

Emotion takes over when you are upset which fuels the need to take the time to tell people about it. The happy feeling you get when someone has helped you is not as powerful and tends to go by the wayside when it actually requires the time to sit down and write about it. We just don't spend the time doing it!

Some of you will understand me and others may not, I just wanted to make sure to try and get this point across. I think that a forum like this of any type will be a bad thing for NAM and the community here as a whole. If you want to know about a vendor then a locked posting asking for references via PM would be a more proper avenue if it must be done.

Chris

 

Chris, I understand ya, and agree, FWIW. I'm glad you chimed-in!

 

So what is the stance? It seems like Mark is going through and locking all of the last outstanding threads that have popped up lately, saying that NAM isn't a vendor customer complaint resolution system. Is this the official stance of the board?

 

There is no current official stance on dealing with these types of issues. We are attempting to formulate a policy that is fair to both customers having issues and vendors being trashed. As for the threads in question I closed these pending follow ups from the vendors/customers. If substantative follow ups are provided I will update the threads with that information.

I hope that we will have a policy that we can communicate to the site early next week.

Mark