Hello all,

I have a question regarding the above mentioned topic with respect to what you can and cannot post in NAM. This is strictly for clarification, not to ruffle any feathers or challenge any rules currently in place.

I think in general, NAM is a little less explicit on rules and guidelines than other forums I am a part of. I recognize this as part of the culture here, but I think there are a couple things that can be addressed. To begin with, here are the site guidelines : https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/guidelines

My question here is basically this: are you allowed to review a company or product/service by someone who is not currently a vendor on NAM? What if you have the part on your car? What if you are sponsored by the company?

My question directly relates to a thread I made basically trying to see if one company (not a vendor on this forum) was a "legitimate" company as far as, there are a lot of shady companies out there, some of which just take your money to fund other things, and it is a long while before you ever get your product. I had discovered that the shop I was looking at was indeed a legitimate company, and updated the post accordingly.

I was then PM'd by a moderator about the thread, inquiring why I had made it, and the thread itself was promptly deleted. I have no opinion as to whether that is fair or unfair, but I'm wondering exactly what the rules are, and how members can benefit from one another. I'm on forums for a number of reasons, and personal experience with products, services, and companies is one of those reasons.

For example, I've seen a few threads that inquire whether or not certain body shops are good body shops to attend to - do they do good work, charge prices fairly/competitively, etc. None of these threads are shut down, nor do I believe they should be. People who recommend certain body shops don't have their posts deleted if the shop they recommend is not a vendor on this forum, etc.

In this regard, what exactly is the rule? Again, looking at the site guidelines, what is the rule regarding reviewing or discussing a non-NAM vendor/company? The closest I find is Rule #9, which states:Even here, I think the overtone is not that we cannot review a product/service/company, but that we should not be (1) trying to sell, for example, exhaust systems or springs (not including personal FS), and (2) that we shouldn't be linking things to outside websites, mainly in regards to a website for a rival forum. I'm assuming (2) is not meant to prohibit, for example posting a link on youtube regarding a MINI review. There are greyer areas however: What about a link to Amazon for something? What about a link to a product information page for an engine oil that we're considering? I'm assuming all these are okay, but given the wording of the rules it may not be clear.

This brings me to my next question. Are we allowed to review products/services from companies which are not vendors on this forum? Or what if we want to know if a non-vendored product is worth our hard earned cash? For example, what if I want to know if brand xyz is a good brand of coilovers, which is not sold by any of the vendors here? Am I allowed to make a thread regarding it? Or, what if I recently bought xyz coilovers - am I allowed to review the product, positive or negative, if it is a non-vendored product?

What if we are sponsored by a company that is not a vendor? For example, I am in the process of getting my dampers custom-valved, and the company (who is not a vendor) is sponsoring the work. Am I allowed to mention the company's name at all? Am I allowed to post a picture of my car which has stickers with the company's name on it?


Some of these questions may sound ridiculous, others not. However, a finer line should be drawn if we are going to be reprimanded for certain actions but not others. Going back to my original circumstance, I wanted to know about a particular company, and if they were "legitimate."

After my thread was shut down, the moderator went so far as to suggest that I should call the chamber of commerce for that state if I wanted to know if it was a decent shop. I thought this was what a forum is for.

Thanks for the time.

 

bump. would love for any moderators to come in and reply.

 

morning bump

 

If you are looking for a specific answer on a specific thread that was handled by a specific moderator, please address the issue with that moderator via PM. If you would like you can PM me more details (Forum, date, basic subject matter, etc) and I can take a look at that situation, and perhaps offer some clarification for you.

Also as it seems there is a desire for apparent urgency, I would again recommend direct contact via PM to the appropriate moderator, which produces instant notification, as opposed to a thread in an open forum that does not alert in the same manner.

As to the question about posting other links, we do generally allow most other links, and have historically opted toward Guideline #9 being a right of refusal, though to a large extent it can be considered to be invoked every time a Vendor attempts to advertise without an agreement or a spam user is removed. And yes there are cases beyond that, just as heavy handed advertising form competing websites and links to websites of banned users.

As to your situation presented, ultimately the answer is such an individual would be treated as a Vendor, as the Vendor sponsoring the individual and the individual then promoting the product in effect makes them an advertising arm of the Vendor.
In the loosest terms, that would be advertising for the Vendor as seen in guideline #5
Or if you were interested in more detail, there is the Vendor Guidelines which have been posted many times, and they spell out a Vendor as:
They also go on to explain member based promotions
So there is the need to be transparent there. Which is a pretty simple matter to address if they sign up for a Vendor account.

Having parts on your car certainly doesn't preclude a review (and is probably better than those who review the parts without having them on their car), Vendor status isn't required for their to be a review about a product in the forums (the actual review system is a bit more tricky and may require that for how the software works), but when there is compensation directly or indirectly for the review, promotion and advertising; then the matter does fall into conflict with the Guidelines and will be addressed according to the specific situation.

 

Thanks for the response.

Not looking for answers for a specific thread (there was A thread, but it just brought to mind this question), I was just looking for clarification in general as to what exactly the rules define as far as what is and is not allowed to be posted regarded a non-vendor company.

My specific questions are:

You say that the sponsored individual essentially would act as the "advertising arm" of the vendor, but later you say that member-based promotion is prohibited, which is essentially what a sponsorship is. Can you please clarify?

In regard to reviewing a part (or company), you note that vendor status isn't required for a part to be reviewed. For example, let's say the company in question is Ohlins, who are not a vendor on NAM. And if I purchased Ohlins through a retailer which is not a vendor on NAM, I am still okay to sing praises about Ohlins, as long as Ohlins isn't paying me? Or I make a thread that XYZ body shop (non-vendor) did a great job with repairs, and they rock. There is a lot of that that goes on, so I am assuming it is okay.

What if Ohlins is sponsoring me, like in the previous paragraph about sponsored individuals? You said that that will run into conflict, as there is indirect compensation - will they then need to register as a vendor on this forum?


Again, I'm not looking at a specific circumstance yet - I am just making sure not to break any rules beforehand. As always, thanks for the reply. As I stated in the first post, not looking to ruffle feathers, be rude, challenge authority - I am just looking to clarify the rules.

 

Ok I've been thinking about this for a while to try and come up with a way to re-phrase things to make it more clear.

User posting reviews on shocks, is a user posting reviews on shocks.
When that user is posting reviews on shocks and receiving compensation for it from the manufacturer, they are shilling or taking part in member based promotion. If the manufacturer is on the site then they are violating vendor guidelines and can be sanctioned.

Once it is determined that such compensation is occurring, then the moderation staff can act on the premise that compensation is a form of payment and the user is essentially working as a Vendor, with existing Vendor accounts it's usually a simple matter of process to get the user added to the Vendor account and get the Purple username, making it clear the connection is not that of a normal user. With those where the Shock manufacturer is not a Vendor on the site, then the user because they are acting as a vendor is subject to the posts in question being removed pending their gaining Vendor Status from IB. IB does distinguish between different types of Vendors and makes arrangements accordingly so Manufacturers and Distributors may have some differences in the arrangements, but in the end for both the sake of fairness to the Vendors and consumer awareness, the User that is making posts designed to advertise (even through soft sell reviews and product promotion) need to go through the process, so that it is clear to all users from so much as a look at the username that the person is a Vendor and has an agreement in place.

These guidelines encompass a wide range of situations, from Vendors creating fake accounts to plug products, to paying users in parts to give favorable reviews, and otherwise influence the appearance of the company in less than transparent manners. And I'm sure it happens and goes undetected; but I'm also very aware that issues in the past have stemmed from a narrow segment of the NAM and the Vendor population, and it's out of fairness to the respective members of both those communities that such guidelines are in place, to make sure those that play by the rules don't have to combat the individuals skirting them.