"The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish, and wicked practice, of profane cursing and swearing (a Vice heretofore little known in an American Army) is growing into fashion; he hopes the officers will, by example, as well as influence, endeavour to check it, and that both they, and the men will reflect, that we can have little hopes of the blessing of Heaven on our Arms, if we insult it by our impiety, and folly; added to this, it is a vice so mean and low, without any temptation, that every man of sense, and character, detests and despises it."

George Washington
Head Quarters, New York, August 3rd 1776.
Parole Uxbridge. Countersign Virginia

 

Can you say the F word in a PG-13 movie?

 

>>***There are quit a few people on this site that I would like to see kicked off for their attitude's and critizing other tastes. If you don't like it just keep your mouth shut. No reason to blast someone elses taste. And finally for those who like to attack others on this site.***
>>
>>Yes. That's the spirit. This will really be an interesting, engaging place when we all reply to one another with "Dittos."*
>>
>>
>>*This post contains sarcasm.
>>

Ditto :???:

 

What I think we really need is for all posts to be checked for spelling errors and proper use of grammar and punctuation!

 

Since this was post was started in response to my comments here are my thoughts.

I don't like to be this involved. I want to enjoy the site and keep as much of a hands off approach as possible.

Unfortunately, with the expansion of the site, there has been an increase in moderation to counteract the increase in flame baiting and personal attacks. We have had members stalk other members around the site and post a barrage of profanity-laced attacks. This was not a slip, but a systematic posting campaign. One member account was terminated because of this.

As for the * @ $ ^ replacement characters, see chrisnl's post on the first page, it pretty much sums it up.

We have people coming to MCO and the MINI from a lot of backgrounds. Some have come from completely unmoderated sites. The posting habits and tones of those sites are different from this one. Part of the character of MCO is the respect we have for one another. We welcome new members and cut them slack, instead of slamming them. Flame bait is dealt with, not left to foster.

We get PM's throughout the day requesting moderation. That can range from a request to move a thread, to fixing a picture link, to bringing a post to our attention where tempers have flared to the point where attacks have taken over and the original topic is no longer discussed.

If you haven't seen everything in question, then that's partially due to things being handled fairly quickly.

I personally believe that moderators shouldn't hide in anonymity for what they are doing. They should be up front and make annotations in posts they have edited and either PM a user about an individual problem, or post when the problem is either more pervasive or has had a lot of attention on the forum. Some of those comments being in the forum can add to a lingering sense of moderation and over-moderation. That said, IMO that is still better than the alternative of having edits made and posts deleted without explanation.

If you don't like something I've done, or have questions you can always PM me.

Dave

P.S. - the derivation of the "Thought Police" in my sig.- MGCMAN used it once in a joke directed at me. It's been an ongoing reference between the two of us since then.


_________________
PM Dave
FWIW, the MCO Thought Police prefer traffic duty to riot control.

 

>>Since this was post was started in response to my comments here are my thoughts.
>>
>>I don't like to be this involved. I want to enjoy the site and keep as much of a hands off approach as possible.
>>
>>Unfortunately, with the expansion of the site, there has been an increase in moderation to counteract the increase in flame baiting and personal attacks. We have had members stalk other members around the site and post a barrage of profanity-laced attacks. This was not a slip, but a systematic posting campaign. One member account was terminated because of this.
>>
>>As for the * @ $ ^ replacement characters, see chrisnl's post on the first page, it pretty much sums it up.
>>
>>We have people coming to MCO and the MINI from a lot of backgrounds. Some have come from completely unmoderated sites. The posting habits and tones of those sites are different from this one. Part of the character of MCO is the respect we have for one another. We welcome new members and cut them slack, instead of slamming them. Flame bait is dealt with, not left to foster.
>>
>>We get PM's throughout the day requesting moderation. That can range from a request to move a thread, to fixing a picture link, to bringing a post to our attention where tempers have flared to the point where attacks have taken over and the original topic is no longer discussed.
>>
>>If you haven't seen everything in question, then that's partially due to things being handled fairly quickly.
>>
>>I personally believe that moderators shouldn't hide in anonymity for what they are doing. They should be up front and make annotations in posts they have edited and either PM a user about an individual problem, or post when the problem is either more pervasive or has had a lot of attention on the forum. Some of those comments being in the forum can add to a lingering sense of moderation and over-moderation. That said, IMO that is still better than the alternative of having edits made and posts deleted without explanation.
>>
>>If you don't like something I've done, or have questions you can always PM me.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>P.S. - the derivation of the "Thought Police" in my sig.- MGCMAN used it once in a joke directed at me. It's been an ongoing reference between the two of us since then.
>>
>>
>>_________________

Very well said Dave. Thanks for all your hard work in keeping the standards of this site higher than most others out there.

 

I agree that I don't like seeing excessive flaming on this site either...it's totally counter-productive. However I kinda don't agree with this:

Because sometimes I like to say that another driver on the road was a pain in my A$$ or something to that effect. Not that I am directing those comments towards anyone specifically on this site...but I will admit that I do have a mouth like a sailor in real life and I don't like TONS of language restrictions.

 

I'd like to add my thanks to Dave and all the other moderators on this site. Without them, it'd be chaos and animosity. Moderators are a necessity onsite these days...unfortunate, perhaps, but true.
Am I brown-nosing? Nope, don't have to..never will. My thanks are heartfelt, period.
Nuff said.

 

With words like ***, ***** and others, plus "the f word" and other biggies barely bleeped out on plain old broadcast television or radio, I ask: What is profain these days?

 

Well...this certainly is a hot topic this morning :smile: The problem with profanity on the site is that for every person that doesn't have a problem with it there are 10 that do....and I get emails from them asking to have something done about it. Since the site now receives hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on a given day there is simply no way to monitor each and every post by myself and/or all the other moderators combined. As it is I frequently have to stop monitoring certain forums that I'm interested in just so I can get some site-related business or projects taken care of. To this end I simply request that you think about what you are posting and if profanity really improves the quality of the post. I think that "Damn! I wrecked my car" and "Your are a dumb *****" are two different types of profanity. I would like to think that the latter of these would be recognized by everyone as something that is unacceptable.

As Dave mentioned earlier I also don't like being so hands-on regarding what is being posted on the site. I can usually take most posts with a grain of salt if there a little questionable, borderline regarding the posting guidelines, etc. but I have to think of the site as a whole and how the above mentioned goals may be reached or damaged by what goes on with specific posts/threads. Of late I feel that the moderators as well as myself have had to step up our vigilence in keeping the posts clean and away from personal attacks. Unfortunately the current forum software we use has VERY limited capabilities when it comes to enforcing our policies. The good news is that the new software that we'll be moving to will automate some of these functions and hopefully further our ability to grow the site. In the meantime please help further the positive tone of the site by recognizing that people have differing opinions and beliefs. That said, if you see people purposely trolling for reactions and are constantly attacking specific members of the site please let us know as this will not be tolerated.

I guess I've given more than my 2 cents worth. Now back to our regulary scheduled discussions....

Mark

 

MARK RULES!!!!!!!!!

 

:smile: :smile:

 

:smile: :smile: :smile: I just want to say "Thanks" to Mark once again - for putting things in place for all of us....I truly enjoy this site....
donna@dcmetrominis.org

 

>>In the very beginning I had three goals for the site:
>>
>>- lots of very detailed, low-level information derived from people digging into their MINIs and modifying them in their own particular ways
>>
>>-create a good working relationship with MINI so that a flow of new information coming from MINI could be repaid in the form of good product feedback and product ideas from the community of owners and enthusiasts (ie - "Let's keep making the car better and better!&quot
>>
>>- create an enviornment where vendors, that have developed products for the MINI, can directly communicate with the very people the products and services were originally created for
>>


Took the words outta my keyboard

These are the reasons I come to MCO... I don't even have my car yet, and I'm addicted to learning more and more about it..and hopefully, have something constructive to offer the MINI community in return. I am 100% for free speech... free behavior as well, but there has to be acceptable social standards, or it turns into a miserable exeperience for everyone when the minority are allowed to ruin it for the majority.

I think we can all agree that we're fortunate enough to even HAVE MCO... So if keeping it means I have to control my absolutely filthy mouth and my typical sexual innuendo, I don't have a problem with it.

 

What's next? We can't smoke when we're on the forum? LOL. This thread stinks of Bloomberg. And we all see the good he does. ::

I am definetly against personal attacks, and when there are none of those, the cussing is in the air, not directed towards anyone. I have a strong feeling that all of the members and guests have their driving licences, this site could very well be at least PG13, that would mean **** is ok.

BTW, **** stands for T H I S

Motor On!

 

>>What I think we really need is for all posts to be checked for spelling errors and proper use of grammar and punctuation!

Dittow

 

Some people are worried about the difference between right and wrong. I'm worried about the difference between wrong and fun. -- P.J. O'Rourke

[The newspaper La Prensa] accused us of suppressing freedom of expression. This was a lie and we could not let them publish it. -- Nelba Blandon, Interior Ministry Director of Censorship, Nicaragua, quoted in the New York Times, 1984

Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. -- A. Whitney Griswold

The saving grace of America lies in the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans are possessed of two great qualities - a sense of humor and a sense of proportion. -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. -- Mark Twain

It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either. -- Mark Twain

A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular. -- Adlai Stevenson

Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but, unlike charity, it should end there. -- Clare Booth Luce

Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing. -- Oscar Wilde

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -- Oscar Wilde

One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne

I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain. -- Lily Tomlin

If life was fair, Elvis would be alive and all the impersonators would be dead. -- Johnny Carson

Whatever it is, I'm against it. -- Groucho Marx

People in Hell - where do they tell someone to go? -- Red Skelton

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. -- Voltaire

 

>>I try to moderate with a very light touch...which I hope the majority of you recognize and welcome. :smile: :smile:

Duly recognized and appreciated, Clo!
Personally, I think all of the "official" Moderators such as yourself, Mark and Dave, among others, do a great job!
What I'm not crazy about are the occasional "self-appointed" moderators that pop up now and then, especially when they give newbies a hard time for common first-timer mistakes such as double posts or repeating questions that may have been asked before at some point.
The search function is a useful tool but it's not foolproof and I think members (especially new ones) shouldn't be publicly slammed or ridiculed for an occasional repeat post or other such "mistakes".
The reason I mention it is because I've noticed a trend in the past couple of months or so of new members coming on MCO and having their first posts greeted with multiple responses full of angry or eye-rolling emoticons and rants about them not using the search function correctly.
I've noticed that a few of these members haven't come back, and it wouldn't surprise if it was because their first impression of MCO was that it was an aggresive and uptight forum.

Anyway, thanks again to the "official" moderators for keeping MCO clean and respectful!



_________________

 

Nobull60, I'm glad to see that your outlook has changed. And it appears that you've been growing. Back in mid-march you appeared to have a different attitude on this. You tended to get fairly hot when others posted their opinions that didn't go along with yours, even when the the post was asking for personal opinions. In one thread, which has been since moderated, you insulted quite a few MINI owners based upon their choice of Liquid Yellow color for their MINI. Based upon the comment you just made today (quoted above), has shown that you've made great leaps forward. I am happy to see it. Keep up the great work!

 

The problem seems to be, people lose respect once they have taken something for granted, and many of us are guilty of that.



I hope this wraps up this thread... I've grown tired of all your blabbering.

 

Was that really neccessary domini? Do you need to name names and junk like that? I think that kind of "Hey Joe, you used be a bad-boy and now you're great" junk is as immature as direct insults and has no place on this site.

 

Well, here's my beef(s):

1-PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS SITE INTO MIATA.NET!!!!! If I want a structured, "do this, don't do this", watch your mouth, keep your oppinion to yourself environment I'll join the Army. Until then, I'm me. Please don't turn us into people afraid to post as the mods may not like it. I stopped posting on Miata.net for JUST that reason. There's a difference between "try to keep it clean and no personal attacks" and "Hile Hitler."

2-Forums rely on vernacular text. We write how we talk for the most part. I'm sorry if someone cannot seperate the symantics from the text. Life is not structured, speech is not confined (unless you are a minor)....

3-Moderation is fine, but if posts just start disappearing because someone said "***", that's out of control. Period.

4-No use of alternate characters in words? So I can't say "ship", "ash" or "tuck"? See where I'm going with this? You just can't limit such broad useage. It's ineffective and childish. But if this site goes the way of some others that seem to only want to cater to the 60year old+ right wing religious zealouts, I for one will be the first to leave and NEVER come back. Hey, treat me like a child and I'll act childish.

5-Why start now? After a year of postings by MANY of us, the same "rules" are now being shoved down our throat. I honestly can't tell if it's a power trip or control.

For the record, I cannot stand censorship of ANY kind, ANYwhere. Hey, that's me and I understand that, but if I'm really ticked off and can't even use an alternate character to gripe, you can rest asured that I'll vent in Belgian slang or Flemmish. IT'S SYMANTICS PEOPLE!!! WORDS!!! THEY DON'T MEAN **ANYTHING** UNTIL **YOU** ASSIGN VALUE TO THEM.

R

 

Personal attacks suck (was that profane?)... I agree there is no reason to tolerate them.

And, although I don't want to "offend" anyone, I'm all too aware at how increasingly impossible that is becoming in this world. A decade of attempts at being politically correct has resulted in a generation of overly sensative Americans.

We get pissed off at everything from language, attitude, the driving habits of others, whether or not another Mini owner waves back at us etc.

Here's an interesting exercise ... look up Profanity, Profane and Vulgar ... since Profanity leads you to check Profane (which largely means, unreligious or unsanctified) and Vulgar (which can mean ostentatious and pretentious, or common, plebian, earthy... I guess it just depends on which behaviour offends you more. Do you think being pretentious is offensive or does common/earthy behavior offend you?)

I think profanity filters suck. You can give me 1000 reasons why they help prevent internet abuse or some other crap in a work environment , I'm just happy that I'm not forced to participate in such a BS, stagnant and sterile work environment. I hope I am so lucky as to continue not to...

But with all that said, to further the goals of the site, I understand the desire for standards. I guess, as a user of the site, I'd request that some thought be given to the level of enforcement.

So what is Profanity and what will you regulate? The Merriam-Webster definition leaves you way too much lee-way. You could potentially sterilize this site to the point that it would remove all fun and much of the desire to participate in intelligent discourse.

As I stated early in this post, I have no desire to offend anyone. But I'm not going to waste my time with herculean efforts made simply on the behalf of avoiding it.

Personally the no $#$%#$^$& rule seems just over the top to me. Frankly, there is a big differnce in saying "this dumb @%^$@#^$^%^ cut me off" and "this s%$@ head cut me off" because the the first really allows you to insert your explitive of choice, while the second takes you much further down the road.

Perhaps the mods can use common sense in such matters.

And, if anyone is offended by either, take a look in the mirror as I expect you would benefit from devloping a slightly thicker skin...

just my 2 cents

Kev

_________________
She let's me drive her MCS (which is good, cause I gave it to her as a wedding present)!!!

Our Baby? - she's an 03 Elect Blue (white roof/wheels) MCS, w/ all the toys (premium, cold, h/k, Nav, xenon, fogs etc) !

 

<<Insert Rant Here>>

 

I think the mods are doing a bang-up job. The last thing that most people want is for this message board to turn into a mud-slinging flame fest. Withought the moderators, this is what will happen. I've seen it happen before on a message board, it's the way it always happens. And if you don't like it, there are many other message boards around that you can post whatever your little heart desires.
What can I say, I'm a child of the BBS era, when if you were disruptive to the community, you were banned very quickly.

Rocketboy_X