I have an '02 MCS.
Recently installed the Helix camber plates and had an alignment done.
The most - camber I can get on the drivers side is -1.4º before the spring hist the bodywork.
The only other cars I have seen running plates are newer models running the "softer" suspsension. They have no problems getting to -2º or more although they are different plates.
There may be a slight subframe offset because the passenger side will go to ~ -2º but no more. This is still less than other can get.

I'm wondering if the OD on the older springs is larger than what is currently being run.

Any specs or experiences would be appreciated.

 

My co-driving MINI tech says all the stock springs are the same diameter. You may be able to shift the sub frame to even out the camber at -1.7, it has been done more than once. And just today another mini autocrosser with stock diameter springs and camber plates said he was limited to -1.7 on his 04.

 

No can do.... We talked about this quite a bit in one of meb's threads. The front subframe is pinned in the front so there is no adjustability there.
All Minis are like this as far as camber goes. One side can not get as much negative as the other, it's just the way the Mini is. You will find though that he driver side tower has two reinforcements rolled into it (to support the tranny mount) which most likely is the cause, but I've never explored that. It's easy to flatten those out to get almost 1 more degree negative.

 

I hate to contradict you but Courtney, my co-driver has done it and yes it is pinned. I can only guess that the pinning restricts fore aft movement and not side to side.

 

Thanks.
I'll look into this further.

Ran an event today and even at -1.4 it was a big help. If I ave to live with this fir a while that'd be OK.

I assume most coilovers will help with this problem.

 

Unless it has changed in the years past '03, then it can not be moved, side to side, back to front, or diagonally. Not sure what Courtney did, maybe you can explain.
The front subframe cannot be shifted, at least not '03 and earlier.

 

Some, maybe even most, coilovers for the MINI now use stock diameter springs, to increase travel. I suspect they can be converted but that would be an added expense.

 

D'oh!!
So much for that idea.

Thanks

 

Many coilovers have smaller springs. I believe KW, Megans, H&R, and some others are smaller. Others like the Konis, PSS9s, Tien use the factory upper spring pearch so they are about the same as stock. It is an easy fix though as you can by smaller spring pearches for the fronts and a new set of springs for the fronts. Yes, more $$, but worth it in the long run.

 

With both SPAX and PSS9s, I've had no trouble getting the -2.3deg camber (there's room for a little more) on both sides up front using K-Mac camber plates. I was also able to get -2.2 deg with the original P&D camber plates and SPAX coilovers. Unfortunately (from an info standpoint) I haven't had the stock springs or dampers on the car since early March of 2003. Car is a 2003 (Sept 2002 build). Both the SPAX and Bilsteins have barrel style front springs, similar to the stock ones.

I don't know that this is true for any of the other camber plates available for the MINI, but the K-macs have special tophats to move the top of the spring outboard to allow more potential camber adjustment range.

Scott
90SM

 

More good info

Keep it coming

 

It seems for you the best option is to go coilovers and with Hypercoil springs, you’ll get all the available negative camber the P&D plates can give; if you want that much.

Nothing has changed on the sub-frame for later model years, the front mounting dowel is conical shaped so once tightened there’s no where to go. However, there’s no shortage in build variables between vehicles. It appears the work shift Friday before the holiday shows up quite often.

An after thought on what can be manipulated, caster can be tweaked a little by moving the control arm bracket before tightening the sway bar mounts but camber is relatively unaffected.

 

With the Webb plates and PSS9's, a quick check at the alignment shop revealed that -3 was possible, but I settled with -2 for starters...

At the Monterey Historics, I spent some time chatting with H-Sport, and I really like their new camber plates! They seem to be very similar to the RDR/Helix ones. I don't think they are up on their website yet though...

During this conversation, I learned that the guy also has PSS9's, and he went with Hypercoil linear springs instead. He did so primarily to get more negative camber as the barrel springs are just to wide. He runs with -3, and could go up to -3.8 though...

I unfortunately placed his business card in my MINI baseball cap that I now cannot find, so I guess I misplaced it that day . I think it was a 7" spring, and I believe the it was rated at 350 lbs. I know that the relationship between valving and rates is pretty important though, so I want to make sure before I make this change...

 

Yep, I was running -3 also with the stock PSS9 springs and at that time the crappy Webb plates. That was maxed out with the hammered out rolls in the tower. .

In talking with Turner Motorsports they said that they regularly increase spring rates on the PSS9 without any problems and they still perform great. I believe this as the rebound adjustment can go rather firm on these things.

 

Greg, should I speak with Will? I really want to make an informed decision, and it sounds as though Turner has been doing some experimenting...

What the heck are you doing up at this time!?

 

Yea, call Turner, though I spoke with someone other then Will himself. When they told me this I was skeptical, but they reassured me that it's fine.
I woke up to the strong smell of skunk so I just checked in. Went back to bed and couldn't sleep after briefly watching some news report about if a nuke were smuggled into the CA ports and detonated what would happen.

I worry about my 15 year old son so much in these times. I fear the draft is near

 

Do the Hypercoils spec to a standard height or do they lower the car?

Doing a higher rate in the front should go with an increase in the rear shouldn't it?

 

There's many sizes and rates to choose from; the front to rear balance does not always dictate a specific ratio.

 

I'll call Turner, pose my question, and see who they direct me to... I realize that they probably don't sell Hypercoil springs, so I hope this will a productive conversation... I'll try to get some recommended specs.

Greg, I heard from Randy of M7 over the weekend that you too live out in the sticks. I remember the photo of the FJ40, so that didn't surprise me. Yes, skunks here in the canyon also, not to mention racoons, wild pigs, foxes, coyotes, deer, scorprions, taranutuals, and some pretty cool birds. In my 10 years here, I also saw a mountain lion once also! My dog then (Akita), went after it, and I never saw one since. Apparently, there have been bear sightings also. Hard to believe that I'm like 10 minutes away from the San Jose city border...

Calling Turner... I'll report back later...

 

Ok, I called Turner... They have a prompt (#3) just for PSS9's actually. I got Kevin. He said that he's done some experimenting with linear in the front a while ago, but doesn't have much info. I asked if there was anyone else who might have some knowledge on this topic, and he said that he's pretty much the guy...

He said to make sure that upper spring hat matches, and that's about it. He confirmed the front progressive rate to be at 325 lbs, and the rears at 350 linear...

Going to 350 linear in the front would be fine he said, but you wouldn't gain much. I told him that the main thing being sought is more clearance for negative camber though...

Kevin was nice, but I can tell just didn't know or remember much... I'll try to contact H-Sport and find the guy I met...

 

I appreciate the legwork Tony.
I definitely want linear springs but I'll leave the rate to those that know better.

The H-Sports look like progressive rate springs and since mine is still a "family" car lowering by an inch isn't high up on the list either.
Looking forward to what you find out.

Thanks

 

I'll keep probing, but at this point, I'm not sure where to go... The guy at H-Sport has Hypercoil springs on the front with his PSS9s. They are linear (350 lbs).

I wonder, since the rear PSS9 springs are also 350 lbs (linear), why not just use those in the front? Maybe it's not the correct length...

As I understand it, one of the benefits, and maybe the only benefit of using a barrel spring is that they are less prone to bind. Just need some solid info from someone who has been there, and tried a few things. If I find-out more, I'll share. Leaving on vacation Wed morning though...

 

Try Eibach springs...you might get some good info by calling Truechoice. TruechoiceIs the only authorized Koni re-builder in the US. They typically pair their dampers with Eibach springs and therefore know a lot about these. The point? You can custom order a set for your car, assuming you can work within certain guidelines. I've used their 2.5" and 2.25" dia springs in the past. All this may read as ducky, but the unknown here is the quality of the ride, not all springs work the same. They may custom make a set of progressive rate springs...they do not like to work with these because getting a progressive spring to work well with a damper is really difficult.

Funny, my Megans are 2.5" dia springs, but the perch will not allow more than 2 degrees...which brings up a point; what is the margin of error between all the alignment machines? I guy in CA complains he cannot get more than 2 degrees while a guy in NY gets 3 - perhaps these are identical in reality. Just a thought...

 

Thanks.

I have been thinking about the part I bolded since I have been playing with this recently.
I have a decent angle locator that I use for home improvement stuff. I've verified it's accuracy at 90º and 45º with carpenters squares, good ones.

Just for S&Gs I set it up one my wheels after my alignment. Dead level floor. ( It took a little shim work with masonite and lexan panels but I got it there). Reading off the wheel lip and bearing in mind this only reads in whole degrees it looked pretty darned close to -1.5 degrees. So this alignment if feel pretty good about.
Haven't tried to measure the toe yet.

I've been contemplating this:


http://www.longacreracing.com/catalo...id=129&catid=5
Not too expensive and might be fun for some DIY fooling around.


Once you guys figure out how I can get more camber

 

KW had 60 mm id linear springs on their V1 and V2 coilovers when they first came out. For one or more reasons they later changed to a tapered spring in the front, it should be an easy conversion. A tapered spring has the advantage of having more travel for a given length because it collapses in on itself, to some extent, instead of directly against the next coil.

Having had two sets of KW's, I love them, and several different springs front and rear I will make the following recommendations for rate and length of a 2.25 or 2.5" dia springs. (KW springs are metric in length and dia. and the strut could probably use a few more threads up top}

If you get a 6" length spring I would recommend nothing less than a 350 lb. high performance spring or you will probably not have enough travel for normal street use. Unless your coilover has more threads than my KW a 6" spring will also make your car very low. It could be combined with a tender spring or spacer for added height. The shortest tender KW has (colapsed ht.) w/ an intermediate perch adds 22mm to the ride height.

A 7" spring will probably not combine well, for total height, with a tender spring unless you get a low rate and I recommend for travel purposes you get a minimum 275 lbs. but recommend 300-325.

Also note I have K-mac, race, camber plates, which lower the car a little, 5/16" if I remember right but it may have been a little more. So adjust you total height based on if your camber plates change your ride height differently.