What about the yaw sensors on the drivers front and rear control arms? Do the ASC equipped cars have them?

 

Nope, I just have the ASC. Maybe I let the front slip too that particular time, don't really remember it all. I'm sure i'll test it better next weekend at our race.

 

Only a DSC-equipped car would have the yaw sensors. When you get the DSC option, you're paying for those sensors plus a steering-wheel-angle sensor along with the additional computer programming to operate the system.

ASC functions by reacting to a difference in the rotational speed of the front wheels, as relayed to the ECU by the ABS sensors on the front wheels. Sideslip by either the front OR rear wheels cannot activate ASC, since there are no sensors to relay this information to the computer.

GH

 

Jake,

Is it safe to assume you never had the DSC on your car re-enable itself on course? Assuming you didn't, I can't understand why the parameters of the system and/or its programming would have been changed after 5+ years of production.

GH

 

GH
On my 04 & 06 cars I have never had it come back on. I will admit that I have left it on accidentally maybe twice . Both cars have DSC. The problems seem to be with R56 cars.

 

The sensors you are talking about are for the Xenons. Mine has DSC and no sensors. Abe's had ASC and Xenons and has the sensors. Like I said - the DSC doesn't add anything but programming.

 

This is an interesting thread. I didn't realize the Mini came with a half (assed?) DSC system standard that only works on the front wheels. Apparently this is something that can be disabled, though? I saw in the R&T article that their car came standard with Traction Control. I know DSC is a $500 option. I was wondering about the DSC option for using the car in snow, but if it already has traction control (and I use snow tires), it might not be necessary. Besides, theoretically you wouldn't have to turn the system off for every run. But it sounds like they all come with a TC system by default that needs to be disabled before each run.... Sorry for repeating info from elsewhere, but this may help me decide which options to go for.

 

Apologies in advance for the wordy reply...this is one of those subjects that doesn't lend itself to an explanation in 25-words-or-less:

ASC only controls front wheelspin. It can be defeated by pushing and holding down the "ASC" button. ASC cuts power when it detects front wheelspin, so being able to defeat it is sometimes useful...for example, in snowy or icy conditions when some wheelspin may be necessary to keep the car moving or to get it unstuck.

DSC also includes the ASC function, but its primary purpose is to save your bacon if one end of the car starts sliding out of control in a turn. The oversimplified explanation of how it works is that it uses several sensors to tell the computer if the car is pointed in a different direction than the driver is attempting to steer it. Then it pulses the brake on either one front or one rear wheel, depending on which action will prevent the impending skid, in order to correct the car's path. This is generally how all current electronic stability systems work. IMO, it's a great safety system to have on the car for everyday driving, even if you're a terrific driver. Of course, the caveat is that if you enter a 35mph corner at 70mph, DSC will not repeal the laws of physics. You'll still crash. But if you hit an unexpected slick spot, have to dodge someone or something on the road, or simply go into a corner a bit too fast, it can do amazing things.

DSC can also be defeated by pushing and holding down the "DSC" button (which replaces the ASC button). If you turn either ASC or DSC "off", they default to the "on" position anytime the ignition is turned off and the car is re-started.

The discussion here has been whether either of these systems re-enable themselves (which the owner's manual implies is not supposed to happen) once the driver has pushed the appropriate button to turn them off for an autocross run.

Hope this helps,
GH

 

Yeah - never re-enabled itself for me or anyone else I have heard of in the 02-06's.

 

I've got a 2006 with ASC only (no DSC), but we do have Xenon head lights so we have the "yaw sensors". Personally I don't think they have anything to do with "yaw", I think they just tell the headlights how level the car is sitting. If I could do it again, I'd skip the Xenon's as the little plastic "yaw sensors" look like they could break real easy or get brittle with age.

 

You're correct, the little boxes attached to the suspension keep the Xenons aimed properly when you put your autocross wheels and tires in the back of the car. The yaw sensor is a little black box that's located in the interior, near the center of the car, usually under the passenger seat or somewhere close to the center tunnel, where it can detect rotation of the car around its axis. There should also be a lateral-acceleration sensor in the same general area.

If what Jeff Stracco said about DSC is correct, the various sensors for the system may be present on all cars, in which case the only difference between an ASC- and a DSC-equipped car is the ECU software (and the lettering on the button next to the shifter).

GH

 

We updated the programming on our early (1/07) production R56 before last Sunday's Philly region autocross. It worked, no more uninvited DSC intrusion. We had three drivers take four runs each with no problems. All three are left foot brakers.
Most cars do not get delivered with the latest programming. Especially the early ones. Before you try to reinvent the wheel, get to your dealer to make sure your car has the latest programming.

 

Great news!!! Nothing like an easy fix.

 

Just making sure I understand you...

You're saying that the software update fixed both problems...the ASC/DSC interuption and the throttle kill while braking problems?

If so that's awesome. Did BMW/Mini release a techical bulletin to make that alteration legal in SCCA Stock class?

 

MINI is never proactive on notifying customers of software updates unless it is emissions or safety related. On the 02-04 cars there were at least half a dozen or so. They only re flashed customer cars when there were drive ability complaints.

 

Ok, I did my first auto-x in the R56 today. The only time the ASC re-enabled itself was when I got into the grass (hit the rumble-strip bit too hard and I jolted off to the other side ). I had it sliding farely well in a few spots but the ASC stayed off. Did a 4K dump launch and it still stayed off. Not quite sure what to think about this all, but gonna go talk to the dealer this week about a program update, just have to think up an excuse that doesn't involve auto-xing.

Only got 5th overall in PAX...stupid runflats.

 

any idea what the service bulletin or update number is on this ECU reflash? Our local MINI dealer (who is otherwise excellent) was a little clueless. I'd like to point them in the right direction when I go in next week.

 

There won't be any bulletins addressing this. There is only a small group of us knuckleheads (autocrossers) that are experiencing this "problem."
We are currently using PROGMAN version 25. The downside is that the dealers cannot claim reflashing under warranty without written authorization or a PUMA case. If you are in good with your dealer they may do it at a reasonable customer pay rate. Possible sponsorship?
Version 25 cleared up most of our problems, however at last Sunday's Philly Region autocross I though I felt some throttle cutoff after I got a little out of shape. It was a VERY fasy 2nd-3rd gear course. Version 26 is due out in late June or early July. It should clear up any remaining problems.

Hope this helps.

 

One of the most informative threads I have read so far. Thanks to all contributors. Can I expect my MA to know what version my Mini will come with when ordered?

 

According to MINI USA, only the first few months of production were afflicted with the ASC/DSC issue. Cars being delivered now should be fine.
And no, I doubt your MA will have any idea which software version your car will have.

Hint to all:
Develope a good relationship with the service advisors at your dealership. Remember, any issues you are having at an autocross may not be considered problems by a manufacturer.

 

Mine was a March build and has the "old" programming. I talked to my service advisor and told him my situation (didn't mention the autocrossing, just that I'm a left-foot braker). He said that they didn't have the newest version availiable to update yet but that he could get it by the end of the week. I forgot to ask if this was a warranty-covered situation though.

 

Ron W mentioned that when you bump the rev-limiter in 1st gear, it re-enables ASC/DSC, so, I avoided this when he allowed me to co-drive with him at HPT last weekend and I had zero reactivation issues on my 5 runs in the car. Anyway, just figured I would post this up for input.

Oh, I forgot to mention, WOOOOW that car is fast!!! Its like a FWD STI. :-)

 

Damn. I'm going to Topeka anyhow with my 06!

Unless someone wants to offer me a co-drive in their 07 w/ LSD.

 

If it rains, you will have a definite advantage over the 07's IMO. Wheel Spin will be a real problem I would guess in the rain.

 

My MA gave me a blank look when I asked about this, using your terms. So he picked up the direct line to service and asked them. The voice on the other end didn't seem to understand the questions concerning PROGMAN versions and asked me what it was supposed to do. When I said DSC/ASC issues, it still didn't ring a bell. Should I be concerned with this service department?