Hello,

My name is Scott. I'm a long time lurker. I think this is my first post. I've been autocrossing an old VW Jetta turbodiesel for about five years. I'm currently in SM where I get my lunch eaten. I'm in SM due to a hybrid turbo that gives me a whopping nine additional HP. I'm likely going back to FSP where I can be more competitive in class. But I often think I'm simply in the wrong car. My raw times seem to be in the mix ahead of some MINIs (maybe HS?), mixing it well with others MINIs (likely the ST MINIs compared to me on my three year old V710s), and well behind our local SM MCS.

I do not own a MINI. I believe it was Brian Garfield who stated in the SCCA forums that the MCS and MC are fairly close in autocross times, especially within the stock classes. I'm fairly certain I would want the MCS because I don't think the MC will match the daily performance currently had by my 2800-lb VW with 130whp and 250lb/ft (FSP values). It'll be tough to leave 45-50mpg behind as well. But the MCS yield a good enough balance between power and economy. I think I can stand to "suffer."

Anyway, enough of the intro. I'd like to know which class the autocrossers here feel is the best competition for the MCS? I like to mod. But I don't want to make the same mistake I made with my VW and mod it to a class where I'll get smashed, especially since I'm not likely going to modify to the maximum extent allowable by the rules. The MCS seems to rule the roost in GS. Will it be hurt if it moves to DS? What about in the ST classes? It would seem to be quite happy there if/when I opt to upgrade the suspension. Can it hold its own in DSP? Or do the BMWs kill it? I'll likely avoid SM.

In short, I have a chance to buy a car for an autocross class instead of checking the rules as an afterthought and driving where I have no chance to be in the mix. I'm in autocross mainly for the fun. But it's nice to be competitive as well. What car and options would YOU buy if you were doing it all over again? I'm leaning toward GS. But ST* may work for me, too. I've even considered the JCW. I'm just not sure I'd be outclassed right away... but I'd LOVE the daily drive!

I appreciate your time and thoughts.

Scott
StealthTDI.com

 

I was originally on the fence between a Cooper and an S. I went with the S, because it is a daily driver more often than it is on an autox course. I was recently regretting that choice. I thought HS had a softer index, and the Cooper is just about as fast as an S. (after seeing the recent increase in the HS index, I like my choice of the S again.) Both cars would allow a good driver to rule HS or GS locally and nationally.

I am getting ready to do some mods to my MCS, but I run in a local series that doesn't follow SCCA rules exactly. We have six classes instead of SM and SM2. (Three on street tires and three on r-comps.) I think at the local level I will be pretty competitive in this TSM like class. I have already had events where I would have placed high enough to trophy without any mods. (Though I would have been just outside of trophies at the event where I ran a Cooper.) I doubt I would go to nationals and try and run in SM though, of course, I never went to nationals to try and run GS either.

I am also thinking of stopping short of the SM like class mods and going to DSP. With the Works parts there are a lot of options available that are not typical Street Prepared mods (like head and pulley upgrades.) I think locally there aren't many in DSP, so I couldn't comment on how that would work out as far as competition goes.

 

The Cooper S dominates G-stock, the regular Cooper dominates H-stock.

 

The Cooper and Cooper S (in stock form) are untouchable. As soon as you modify and move out of the stock classes it allows the other cars that don't have great suspensions to have them and the Mini looses it's advantage. If you plan to modify your Mini to your liking then do it, just don't expect to be competitive.

BTW FYI I drive an 05' MC in the STS class and I'm up there with the DSP 08' Mini's. Autox is 90% driver 10% car, if the driver isn't comfortable with the car then that 90% will suffer.

 

Based on this information, you could easily go STX - that is where a modified street tire MCS naturally goes. It's been a while since I was in STX myself, but the MCS nicely modded stacked up well against the WRXs, BMWs, and ITRs that are in the class. Otherwise, if you keep your modding to Stock specific items lighter rims, Koni's, exhaust - things like that, you'd be very competitive in GS or even DS if they do make the switch. Besides, the argument about DS vs. GS doesn't matter right now on overall index since the GS index is just a smidge tougher right now anyway.

Good luck and if you are going to autox, the two items I would definitely get would be LSD & sports suspension (bigger sway bars). There's lots of debate about the sports suspension, but those would be what I would get for performance.

 

Hello,

Thanks for the replies! The MC was just barely a consideration. My latter decision struggle has been between the MCS and the JCW. On paper, the JCW appears to be only marginally faster in a straight line. I'm sure it's just about no faster on the autocross course, especially if both cars are even modestly prepped for DSP. Eventually going to DSP is not out of the question. GS will be my playground, at least initially. Eventually, I will give in to a desire for more power/speed... even if the gains are small. Driving a diesel, I'm used to appreciating small gains.

I agree that SP-prepped cars are often equalized. I will likely autocross the VW for at least one more season. Perhaps upgrading my 150,000-mile aftermarket suspension with coilovers will help make my car a bit faster.

My next questions will be about the MCS vice the JCW package. But those questions may be best asked in another topic. But, in a nutshell, I'm inclined to wonder if the MCS can mechanically withstand being tuned to JCW numbers although the MCS is certainly capable of performing that way without mechanical upgrades. I'll dig more before posting a new topic. But I have not found this particular discussion just yet.

Thanks Again,

Scott

 

Gray had suggested installing a LSD (which puts you straight into SM where the MCS is not very competitive without spending a crap load of money) and sway bars (which put you into STX). The MCS is more than capable of the JCW's power without going internaly and has been reliable in doing so. So your decision between the 2 should be based on what you want to do with the Mini in the long run not as they sit now. Personaly I would get the MCS and put the money saved into wheels, tires and suspension if you were looking at autox/time attack or more. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with the JCW package, I just think it would cost you less (if you did most of the work yourself) and be better tailored to your driving needs if you went aftermarket is all.

 

Gotcurves,

Thanks for your input. FWIW, LSDs are legal in DSP. And, since the LSD and sways are FACTORY options, they're allowable in GS. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm pretty certain DEALER options can bump one out of class but FACTORY options are legal.

Scott

 

Scott, you are correct. unless you install a better (or different) LSD. Aftermarket LSD's are allowed in STX/STU (for 2wd cars) and SP and up.

 

To be clear, I meant get a MCS with a factory LSD & sports suspension - those are GS legal.

 

this is what the rules say as far as a LSD is concerned

street prepared;
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serve no other purpose.

Street touring;
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backdating ECU internals from OBD2 to OBD1, etc.

So to make sure everyone is up to speed. An LSD is only allowed IF it was available from the factory (the LSD in the S was only available from 2005 and on) if it was your allowed to backdate the LSD. Any LSD is allowed in the street prepared class or DSP for the S and FSP for the Cooper. My bad for the SM missinformation. When backdating a car everything that the dealer installed in addition to the mod your goimg for needs to be installed as well. So if for some reason (hypotheticaly speaking) the manf decided to add an addition catalytic converter in the the package that included the LSD then that MUST be installed as well. Just make sure your clear as to what ALL the options are that come with the backdate you want to perform.
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Keep this in mind, JCW's are not GS legal, I think they go straight to STX. If you want to do mods and are considering getting a pulley, that will land you straight into SM, even if you remove the stock pulley and put a same diameter pulley on it, it moves you to SM.

 

Newer (2006 forward) JCWs are in BS. Older JCWs were not eligible for stock classes. Also, can't you add any of the JCW components as mods once you are in Street Prepared, including the better supercharger and pulley?

 

BUT!!! What you can do (if you have an 07 or later) is get a custom ECU tune (which is legal for STX) and throw in a little electronic boost conrtol and you'll just nudge yourself into DSP with the ability to gain boost without moving into SM.

 

You can do the JCW conversion (pulley, supercharger, head?, etc) and be in DSP. but you cannot mix and match. So, you can't just do the pulley, you have to do the supercharger as well. Other things that are allowed in SP (intercoolers, brakes, etc) do not have to be included.

 

I've been running an '04 JCW MCS in STX for the last few years (ever since they let the car out of ASP).

The setup is competitive regionally, but not nationally (which is fine with me).

It makes one H*LL of a daily driver!

PM me if you have any questions - setup, parts, etc.

Including the JCW I've about 10k in mods in the car, including a Quaife [which is quite legal in STX].

So if you like mods, and don't care to win nationals, you can have a riot without being banished to SM - if you go the JCW route.

 

Hello,

Thanks for the replies! I visited a MINI dealer yesterday. I wanted to take a few photos and take a closer look at the car in person. To my surprise, the MA let me take a MCS and a JCW for unaccompanied test drives. I wasn't in it to flog the cars. Instead, I appreciated being able to drive the car to my own testing preferences without hearing the "blah-blah" from a salesperson. My goal was to feel the mid-range power and feel one or two sprited second gear sprints. Both cars had about 1000 miles on them.

The MCS was a nice ride. But, in "normal" street cruising, it wasn't as responsive as my current turbodiesel (260-lb/ft at 2200-rpm). The JCW did a tad better. Yes, my diesel lays down plenty of torque. But the party's over by 4500 rpm! I have no doubt the MCS is overall faster. However, I like low-end torque. Sometimes I just don't want to shift... Good torque below 3000 rpm makes that possible. The JCW felt like it delivered a little better in that respect.

Also, I tend to lean toward the JCW for a few other reasons: I WILL eventually mod this car, especially once the aftermarket catches up with the new platform. I'm sure I'd eventually want a different turbo if I had the MCS (hello Street Mod!). The JCW turbo is already an upgrade which will likely yield more power. The JCW clutch likely handles more as well. In short, it seems I could drive in BSX (our local street-tire PAX'd class) for a year to learn to drive the new car. Then I could move to STX when I upgrade the suspension. Then I could move to DSP when I opt to alter boost and make changes to the engine. Given the eary efforts from ALTA, I imagine I'll eventually be more than happy with a 250hp DSP JCW without getting dumped into SM.

IDK... It seems like a plan for now. I tend to shop far in advance. I guess that's a good thing since I'll likely wait a while from order-to-build-to-delivery. And I still have plenty of time to learn more to ensure I buy the right car first!

 

Go H Stock!!! The competition is great. Nationally there are some really good drivers in H stock (Ron Williams, Jack Burns, Shawn Hill, Mark McKnight to name a few) There are other cars that can compete with the MINI (Mazda 3 and Honda Civic to name a couple). Thats just me though, I might be a little biased

 

Hello,

I can't do H-stock. Sure, the car would handle great. But the car would be slower on the street than my current diesel (2700-lbs, 140-whp, and 260-lb/ft at just 2200-rpm). I'm a tad tired of "slow" cars. I want something that'll set my hair on fire! I'm still leaning toward the JCW although the MazdaSpeed3 has my attention. Yes, the JCW is expensive. But I think it'll keep me happier during the time I would use to save up for mods and watch the market catch up with the new car. I'll especially be happy if the windows stay up when I'm away from the car.

Thanks for the response!

Scott