My terminalogy might be a little off but standing on them is what is it feels like. Brake harder and deeper into the corner and then turn. I also have a high power rear wheel drive car so I try a variety of lines and technics looking for faster smoother lines. Also this car is my DD and not trailered in so I need to be able to drive it home after the event. Actually I do a lot more trail braking when I am doing track days. Not as hard on the car and allows you to set the balance up easier for the corners. The stand on them method does tend to drop laps times fast when I am looking for a new faster lap time. Usually I do this on my next to last session when I am looking to see if I found any faster lines and looking for a new personal best lap time.

 

To get faster, you are right, you need to go in deeper into the corners. Do you do trailing brake and/or trailing throttle into turns. Like at WGI, deep into the bus stop corner, 130 mph or so, really hard smooth braking at about the 200 mark, then trail braking into the corner right with some oversteer to position the car for the immediate left.

What coffee mentioned is more the transition into and from braking and how smooth that should be.

 

Stick with the Direzzas btw, they are awesome!

 

The Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is a great tire. We ran these on our Lemons car in the last fall (2011) and spring (2012) LOUDON ANNOYING races. However, they became hard to find towards the end of the season, so we switched over to the Falken Azenis RT-615, as the rules require a 200 Tread Wear rating. I was impressed with these as well.

 

I figured I would post here rather than make a new thread. Do most people who run carbotech xp10's have the same pad on the back? I see many suppliers recommend 10's on the front and 8's on the back. Any input?

 

I use to run XP12 (F) and XP10 (R). I also ran XP10 (F) and XP8 (R) many years back.

Some people even run street pads in the back because it does not go thru that much stress in the back. Not sure I would recommend it.

 

In the past I ran XP10 up front and XP8 in the rear, based on "everyone's" suggestion. Last year I had an opportunity to run XP10s on all 4 wheels and liked it better. The 10/8 setup seems to do a little more braking on the back than the 10/10 setup I last used. With the 10/8 setup I felt the back was a little "looser" under heavy braking and with the 10/10 setup the rear tracked with less drama. If you are going for speed/time go with the 10/8 set up as you probably have a little more braking. However, if you are learning, like I am, I would suggest the 10/10 setup.

 

Performance Friction Pads are fantastic on the road and on the track and virtually no brake dust either.

I run them up front with Nitrac 12 grooved discs, HEL braided lines with motul 660 and they are very good on track, 15-20 minutes of hard use and then you will start to really push this setup.

 

Correct me if i am wrong, but as the pads go up xp8, xp10, xp12 the "friction" of each pad increases correct? So wouldn't a 10/10 setup have more rear bias than a 10/8 setup due to the higher friction pads in the rear?

 

The thought with the split pads is that
A: the rear brakes dont get as hot as the fronts because they only do about 1/3 of the work. So you can run a cooler pad which cost less and is in the correct temp range.
B: is that by splitting the compounds you can get better tail braking and those better turn in and lower lap times.
I think Eddie07S found less braking force with the XP10s because he was outside of the temp range and they have less bite at lower temps

 

Ahh alright that makes sense. So is the best way to determine what pads to run trial and error? or is there any better method? I mainly run at Watkins Glen and an and hoping to branch out to a few new tracks such as limerock or NJMP

 

I believe SneedSpeed is exactly right. But I am not racing, so I will take the more calm back end.

Grahams315 - I also run at WGI and have run at LRP and NJMP. WGI is tough on brakes as a lot of braking is down hill and at high speeds. My experience is that the back end gets light in those situations and the 10/10 works well for me there. At LRP and NJMP (Lightning at least) braking is basically done on the flats which is not hard on the brakes and the 10/8 worked great there.

I hate to say it, but in my experience, yes, brake pad selection is a bit of a trial and error process, in part determined by your experience level, but you want to keep the "error" to a minimum. On a MINI the important brakes are the front and the selection there is probably the easiest. Get a high quality race pad like the XP10 or 12 for up front. For the rear, you can run that with the stock pad and see how you do. Your experience level and your ability to utilize trail braking will play a part in a decision to upgrade to the 10 or 8 in the back. Don't get me wrong about putting the 8's in the back. It wasn't a disaster or anything. It was very controllable, but it was just not what I wanted at this time.

Say, are you looking to be at WGI any time soon? We could possibly be there at the same time. I will be there with GVC in May and Patroons in June (both are BMWCCA Chapters in NY).

 

Thanks for the advice. I only have two track days in my MINI, both were at WGI. I've got a fair bit of experiance in autocross and sim racing, but i wouldn't call myself anything other than a beginner.

I will most likley go with the xp10 front and xp8 setup at first and see how it feels at WGI. Then I may pick up a set of xp10s for the rear if i want them for the glen and try out the xp8's at lime rock and NJMP

I've been running with NASA last year so this year I'm planning on going with them again April 29th and Sept 27th. How do you like the organization you run with? I've thought about branching out as I've heard some are cheaper for track days, but NASA certainly seems to have their crap together and I don't have any issues with them

 

The best way to know if you need to move up in heat range on brake pads are -

Your pads become greasy and have brake fade. Most street pads do this.

You see streaking around the rotor. Its looks like a comet tail going around part of the rotor in spots. This is some of the brake pad melting and sticking to the rotor. You need to move up in heat range until the streaking stops.

The XP10 (F) and XP8 (R) are where we start everyone. If you run our brake cooler XP10 or XP12 at very hard braking tracks will be fine. Without the brake cooler we've had to move to XP16. The XP16s are the most expensive so the brake cooler kit is a cost effective solution to buying expensive brake pads and finishing the race or session. Our brake cooler kit is here http://www.sneed4speed.com/mini-brak...y-sneed4speed/
Carbotech brake pads are here http://www.sneed4speed.com/mini-brake-pads-carbotech/

The NASA groups are very good and well run. The BMW groups are also well run but have a more laid back vib. Run with as many groups as you can. Each has its own feel and something to teach you. PCA is also a good group to look at.

 

SneedSpeeds advice is very good...thanks Chris for the pointers, I have wondered how you tell that.

Grahams315 - I think you will be fine with the 10/8. I can only speak to my experience and preferences and offer what I can so you can make an informed choice. The important thing is to get a good pad for the track and I believe the Carbotechs are a great pad with a great heat range which means they make for a good experience on the track. I know some people who ran very fast times in a MINI around WGI using XP12s and never over ranged them. I run the 10's and have not over ranged them. I think it is a good choice for you. My only caution is that on your first couple or more laps, take it easy on the braking and then work up to harder braking so you get a feel of what the new pads do for you.

I can't speak for NASA, but have a lot of experience with the 2 BMW groups I mentioned and have had good experiences with them. Most of all, both groups seem to attract a good group of instructors. Here is a good video to watch. It has a lot of good points in it:

If you don't know who Pete Argetsiger is, you might want to Google him. I only found out about him recently when he gave a track walk at WGI that I attended...It was "eye opening".