Thanks for the feedback.
I'll counter, for fun.

1) Im speaking directly with a manufacturer that will do the R&D now. They just need a OEM item to work with(ie defective stk unit)
There may be demand if owners actually know there is an alternative to the faulty OEM version.
2)I totally understand people wanting to get it replaced for free, under warranty. But from reading this forum, people are on their 2nd or 3rd factory clutch & still having issues. All the while fighting to get it covered. Many have already stated that the dealer is only covering it 1x. So whats the option in the next 2yrs for them? Another faulty $3K clutch? The performance replacement option could be available soon.
Not only is it a better replacement option, for less $. It drives better(single mass vs Dual Mass design). I see the point that people wont want to spend on this as it should be covered, but it's clear that people do not like the OEM clutch, just as they prefer aftermarket(performance) Exhausts, Wheels, Tires, etc that are currently under 'warranty'. Just because you cant 'see or hear' the clutch, the performance is there & the feedback would be rewarding. This would equal a better driving experience overall. (performance driving, hills, aggressive starts, etc.. things the OE clutch cant handle).
Point here is, the OEM clutch isnt lasting 100K, not even 5K in some reported cases. People end up hating the CM & dumping the car because of it. If the clutch wasnt an issue there may be a better overall owner experience.

3)Speaking personally, I know I will be going this route. I dont care that MINI would put in another for free. Its a junk part, I want something better(just as I did w/ the run flats, suspension, etc)

This counter is not directly pointed at you, but just trying to get some discussion going here & raise some feedback on the opinions of others.

 

I understand and even agree with all your points to a certain degree. It's a matter of choice / preference for dealing with the issue, as well as the expectation for durability based on use, and tolerance towards expensive maintenance and repairs. When the car is out of warranty I will go the aftermarket route, but I'm not at that point yet.

Out of curiosity, what manufacturer are you working with and what's their ETA? Not sure if you can disclose, but interested in the development as well as their thoughts on the CM All4 OEM clutch delivered from the factory. Anything you can share as development progresses would be appreciated.

Cheers!

 

at this time I can not share whom the manufacturer is. They have been given all the OEM info/details, P/N's & specs to date.
They need an actual OEM unit(clutch & preferably a DM FW) to finish R&D.
The pricing was a quote based on other unit that have made for MINI, etc.
They would likely start w/ a full faced, stage 3 option & provide additional stages if there is a market. (ie 6 puck, 4 puck, etc).
They have been manufacturing performance aftermarket clutch for quite some time & have a very good reputation.
Production ETA would likely be only a few months from development to market.

The Clutch kit is a Solid Mass FW conversion. This is a traditional style clutch. A single mass flywheel w/ a sprung disc clutch (vs the current Dual Mass design(this is a spring loaded, heavier FW w/ an unsprung clutch disc.)

Single Mass set ups are lighter, engage better & have the ability to upgrade performance levels via friction material & disc springs. The FW can also be resurfaced if need be.

Most current late model cars use Dual Mass FW's & I cant see why. There are few manufacturers (1 I actually know of) that produce an upgraded clutch disc for a DM FW set up.

 

Just a quick FYI. Spent about half an hour on the phone today with a law firm that handles class action lawsuits. Paralegal took down my story, as I also referenced the many forums, blogs, automobile magazines reports and even MINI's press release in November announcing an updated clutch.

Not sure if this will go anywhere, but at this point I have no better way to vent my utter disgust and dissatisfaction than to pursue any means to get MINI to do the right thing. Trying to communicate with MINI USA (they really have a winner with that Jimmy guy in customer relations) gives me tsuris.

I will keep all informed.

 

Kibby... I am an executive at a technology company and when customer's have challenging issues that need resolution, I often get directly involved and sometimes our CEO does as well. We do anything possible to not let customer issues fester to ensure end user satisfaction. Not all issues are resolvable, but our goal is to do everything we can.

Are you saying after all this complaining and struggling to find a resolution, the highest you've gotten up the Mini org chart is someone in customer relations? As active as this forum is, it surprises me that no one vocal here has interacted with someone on the Mini USA product team or a leader there that can lay out the path forward for a user experiencing this issue.

They should at least tell people to "stay tuned" as they sort through the information and work on a resolution. Sometimes these issues do take time.

 

Mini USA just doesn't care.

 

Good question. I was able to find the emails for 3 top execs ( including SVP of MINI). I sent them a very well articulated email and received a phone call the next day from someone named Jennifer who told me she worked in Executive office. She then requested I take my car back to dealer for assessment ( same charade--dealer never finds anything wrong!). And here is where I sit. Dealer said there is nothing wrong with the clutch.

I would be happy to share letter I sent to executives as well as their emails....took lots of digging to find them. I will in all likelihood email them again, send certified letter, etc....This is now close to 2 years we have been in contact with MINI USA about our clutch; we knew there was a problem within weeks of getting the car in February 2011.

I actually think they don't care.

 

I'd suggest you and anyone else with the clutch problems considering making all of it public. A timeline. Any long form social media will do, Google+, blogspot, a public Facebook profile, etc.. Hell, possibly your own thread here. Spilling out every detail that has happened so far, people you've spoken to, any other details about your clutch's deterioration. Make sure everyone knows the link to the history (put it in your sig?).

One of the strongest statements of disapproval of the clutch problems detailed in this thread is seeing people who say they've sold their CM, even though they loved it. It's a pretty bittersweet statement, but the way I see it, if it goes back to the dealership this form of dissent also unfairly advantages the dealership and probably mini, unless they can't sell them. Unfortunately, there's a sucker born every day, so they'll probably all get sold.

I'm not even a R60 owner. But since I derp around these forums, and noticed the many threads about this, I've made sure that the CM ALL4 has made it off a good friends' short list. She could afford it, but she can't afford for the manufacturer not to support their product. She would be more interested in the automatic ALL4, but she'd rather not get into a deal with the devil.

Regardless, I wish everyone in this thread a speedy resolution to this problem.

 

Way Motor Works has the OS Giken GT clutch kit listed as a compatible upgrade for the Countryman. It is pricey @ $1800 for the kit alone. May be worth a look.

http://www.waymotorworks.com/os-gike...-cooper-s.html

 

That's a SM Fw kit.
I'm not sure if it's accurately listed tho. The 235mm CM clutch is much larger and different than all those other models.
It certainly wouldn't be the 1st mis listed CM item on their site.

 

Squealing clutch

Please, can you tell me if I should be worried? The problem: two weeks ago, when I was driving in a traffic jam (for 30 minutes), the clutch started to produce some very weird noise, I think the appropriate word for it is "squealing". It appeared at almost one, particular point of the clutch pedal travel (at this point car starts to move at very low revs). It sounded like this for whole way to the city center and then I parked and went away for 2 hours.The strange thing is that hasn't appeared again, even if I tried to repeat the situation (taking off repeatedly, hard accelerating, gentle accelerating...) nothing happened.
No clutch smell, too.

I have a full 2 year warranty coverage and my BMW/MINI dealer is usually willing, so I think this isn't big problem at all, but is this a normal behavior or a sign of a bigger problem with clutch?

 

I would make sure you document what happened in writing with your dealer. This way, should it fail, you have it documented. Some dealers are covering the clutches no issue, others are claiming user error. If they claim user error, the warranty does not cover clutch failure!!!! You can only hope that if your clutch does fail, it will be replaced with the "new" clutch and not the same crappy, faulty clutch that's in our cars now!

 

First off, I am not a car guy... I know very little about engines, transmissions, clutches, etc...

Does anyone think that the clutch problems are due to the clutch being light and weak (having been designed for the MC hatch) and the CM being heavier and bigger?

Could it be the engine not having enough power to push the car enough from a stop and the clutch gets prematurely worn as a result?

Would the JCW tuning upgrade fix this since it would improve torque and hp? If so, maybe they could negotiate a significant discount on a tuning upgrade to those with a 6 speed to protect the clutch?

I could be totally and completely off here, so don't rip me...

 

I am not an engineer, but I would assume everything else being equal, the heavier a vehicle is the beefier a clutch is needed. I would think the same concept applies to engine torque also, the more torque an engine can produce, the beefier a clutch is needed. This seems to explain why the clutch issues seem to be showing up pretty much only in S models with the more powerful engines, and more specifically pretty much only in the all-wheel-drive cars, which are the heaviest. I hope they have resolved the issue for 2013, but personally we are not confident of that. That's why we ordered the 2013 replacement vehicle they are giving us with an automatic transmission. It is an expensive option, but the clutch issues scare us. We had no clutch problems with our current 2012 all4, but we did not have it for very long.

 

It's my opinion, based on driving loaner CMS, that the clutch doesn't give a problem except in the ALL4. I don't think it's just the added weight - it's the effectiveness of the ALL4 system that shows the problem. The engine doesn't have enough low-RPM torque to deal with the reluctance of the car to go and the traction of the ALL4. With the CMS there's enough torque to spin a front wheel if the clutch is delivering a lot of torque. With the ALL4 the clutch shudders and the engine dies.

Those who have had their ALL4 engine tuned, added performance-enhancing options, and otherwise improved the available power and torque have reported a better situation. You should be encouraged. Perhaps the combination of the recent clutch modification and JCW or better power get to a better place with the ALL4.

 

The CM use a larger 235mm clutch(vs coopers)
The size is not an issue.
The friction material and weak springs inside the dual mass FW are the problem.
13's and warranty replacement clutches are being fitted with the JCW clutch discs. The material changes and is a bit more aggressive.
This equates to less slip.
It helps, but doesn't fix the Fw issue.

All4 seem to be effected the most. This is because more demand/load is placed on the friction disc.

When I put an LSD in my fwd VW, my 24k stock clutch starting slipping immediately.

 

That's exactly the situation I think we have with the ALL4, adding inadequate torque with the MINI.

 

So I need to immediately go on a diet and lose that 40 lbs I gained back so my clutch lasts longer?

 

So aftermarket is really the only solution? As a virgin mini owner, another poster put it perfectly, what an epically disappointing ownership experience this has been.

 

Well, the new clutch disc should definitely help. How much is hard to say.
Dual Mass FW's in general are a weak design. The internal springs are typically just not stiff enough. Pedal effort remains low as does drivetrain lash, but holding power compared to a traditional clutch on like apples to oranges.


Depending on terrain(ie hills) & 'city' traffic the upgraded disc may be fine. But it's certainly not the best solution.
As of now, there is no aftermarket clutch company (or even oe supplier) making a single mass conversion. (*I'm working on that)

Dual Mass FW's are such an issue that even the OEM co.'s are offering conversion kits for replacement (ie Sachs, Valeo, Luk). Not a performance option, but simply a better design that works.
The performance aftermarket is typically the ones to offer an 'upgrade' conversion. As of right now, there are no doing so for the 235mm CM.

Most are in the range of $1000-$1400, the OSG kit above is just a very pricey option(for coopers, Not the CM)

I probably wouldnt turn down a 'free/warranty' upgraded clutch, but for the same labor & half the cost of the OE unit I'd certainly opt for the Single Mass performance conversion *when it becomes available. (but I like performance upgrades that cost less than OEM)

 

My CM does this. Seems to be heat related as it happens more in the summer and sitting in traffic. Haven't had it checked out since the clutch doesn't feel like it is slipping at all, just a humming noise.

 

My partner drove the CM to work and while it is normally parked outside, we happen to have a space for it in the garage tonight, so he backed it in when he returned home from work. We always back in because our driveway is steep and has quite a curve in it so it is easier to back in.
Long story short, while he always negociates it fine with his R53, I could hear a lot of reving and it took more than one try to wedge the CM in.
The result is that when he opened the door to the house the distinct smell of burnt CM clutch came wafting in and it actually made me laugh. Smells like I am now a little closer to clutch replacement.

 

Interesting. I've had a hum that I've been calling a "moan" in hot weather, but I can't produce it on command, so the dealer hasn't heard it yet. It stopped when the weather cooled off this fall. If it comes back in the spring, I'll update.

 

doesnt it smell like burnt asparagus?!

 

Kind of. You can tell something got too hot, almost like metal that gets too hot or electrical fire.