Nice for Mini to crack down after five years!

In reality, each Mini dealer is an independent business entity which can charge whatever it pleases for its cars. If it charges too much, the cars will just sit there.

The fact that dealers are waiving their beloved markups has nothing to do with frowning BMW execs and everything to do with frowning, harder to find, customers.

(jmo)

 

It's possible MINI has hit it's market penetration and with the larger amount of cars being produced with this generation are causing the markup's to go away.

All these posts are pure speculation as nobody here is a automotive industry analyst with access to numbers and research. Unless somebody is. If so speak up.

 

This is good news for people buying a new mini!

 

Loui, I don't think he is. Actually, he owns a '06 JCW MCS according to his profile. Like in any discussion, it is fgood to have differing views. It makes the boards that much more interesting. I find Slag to be a fairly level headed member of this community. Let's respect each others points of view.

 

Having had some exposure to this industry on my own, I can attest to the above. Dealers, for the most part, are independent franchises that can price their vehicles for as high as the market will bear to pay. Manufacturers have little control (And in some cases do not want to "upset" the ongoing business relationships they have with those dealerships) over what the owner and GM does or doesn't do in their own lot. MINI owns a few dealerships (MINI of Manhattan is one of them) and still certain practices in terms of pricing and customer service are of no apparent interest to company headquarters, as long as, sales quotas are met and the product moves out of inventory.

 

No bash intended... simply pointing out where the R56 finished in a Road & Track comparsion article. This type of press fuels sales, good or bad... and in this case, the R56 finished 4th out of 5. Additionally, one can not deny the large amounts of inventory building at a number of the larger MINI dealerships, such as the 2 super dealers in NC. IMO, the day of mark-ups or even MSRP sales as we had in the R53 era are over, and we are starting to see early indication of this now. At MOTD 2007, the MINI USA rep heard an earful on the R56 redesign... the phenomenal press and universal appeal of the R53 which resulted in demand beyond production capacity appears to be at an end...

 

You keep beating the same old drum, and not even the truth will budge you off your hobby horse. Something for you to ponder is the continual drop in sales of VW GTI over the years despite good press in Road & Track and other mags. My local VW dealer is even having problems generating enthusiam for R32s this summer. North Carolina may or may not need sales. Go there and see what price they give you.

 

Road and Track comparo 4th out of 5.

Car and Driver comparo 3rd out of 5.

Comments and observations from the editors are fairly similar.

While an R53 JCW came 3rd out of 3 cars in comparo, it was lauded as the enthusiasts choice of the trio - the car you'd take to the track. The Car and Driver article in particular was pretty rough on the R56.

This resulted in a backlash against C&D on this forum. Now R&T has ranked the car fairly low in a comparison - does this mean that Slag is the editor at both magazines, or are we noticing a trend here?

Recently, the R53 JCW GP more than held it's own in a shoot out with the 10 best handling cars - finishing behind the GT3, Cayman, Elise and Evo - beating out the Mazdaspeed 3, the S2000, the 335, Civic Si and the Z06.

BTW: Until the latest iteration of the GTI came out last year, the car had been getting panned in the press for getting pudgier, slower and less of an enthusiasts car. Additionally, VWs have a bad rep for resale value and reliability.

Up until the end of the 2006 model year, in California, you had to wait in line and pay a premium for an R53 Mini. This year, there are unsold vehicles on the lots and reports of people getting deals below MSRP - something we didn't see in our neck of the woods with the R53.

Mini of Mountain View is a perfect example - a known gouger for 5 model years with the R53 - now selling the R56 at MSRP.

Either:

(A) BMW is still selling them at the same rate, but producing them faster or in greater quantities than the market will bear, or

(B) The R56 is not being as well received.

Neither option has anything to do with Slag's supposed "bias" against the R56.

The R56 is a very nice car. It's different from anything else on the road. It also looks promising in that the powertrain platform will be able to support some truly fantastic mods. The new engine is very torquey and alot of the interior refinements work well (with the exception of the speedo and the HVAC controls). But please, the car faired poorly in two recent comparisons, and it appears that there may be some legs to the reports that the demand may have fallen off.

We'll see if these prove true or not.

 

I still think this is some of the funniest stuff I have read in a while. Ok, here is one buyer who would have never bought a Mini had it not been for the R56.

I dunt(tm) care for the R53 or 2006 model. I drove it and did not like it. I could have gotten it a lot cheaper than the R56, but I opted for what I think is the better car for me.

 

All of this is anedotal information. MINI sales are up almost 20% worldwide. Yes, MINI has increased its capacity with a huge increase in output. Tier One dealers, those with most sales, have been given significant increases in their allocations.

By the way there are more mags than Road & Track, Car & Driver and Motortrend. Historically, all hot hatches were measured against the GTI. This generation has gained significant plaudits, but sales still languish. Most recently, VW produced a special edition Orange GTI. Thus far few have been sold. MINI may have an uphill struggle in the years to come, but the Clubman, a new convertible, and perhaps an AWD are ready to enhance the MINI presence worldwide.

 

+1...I liked the look of the exterior of an R53, but absolutely hated the interior. Yeah, the speedo might be a little too big in the R56, but in all honesty, it is so easy to get used to and the interior looks a lot cleaner. The more "refined" look was what did it for me. I looked at MINIs for almost a year before I decided to purchase and I'm 100% happy with the R56's looks. I think a lot of other people will be too. Only the future will tell where sales will go...all this speculation is probably not going to get us anywhere though...just IMHO.

 

A: Selling them at a faster rate, AND producing them in much greater quantities.
B: record numbers speak for themselves.



Yes, the factory has significantly ramped up production of MINIs. It is putting out a great many more than it ever has before - and dealers are getting much more alotment than ever before. That is the big reason many dealers actually have inventory now.

 

Sure you're not putting too much weight on the final rankings? Did you really read the articles? Or just read into them? There are couple key points you seem to have glossed over.

In all the performance tests, in both magazines the R56 generally bettered everything else in both tests except for the Mazdaspeed 3 (and the WRX in a couple individual rankings).

Where it got slammed in C&D was... wait for it...rear seat comfort, rear seat legroom and trunk space! Apparently no one noticed that in both tests it was a compact coupe amungst a quartet of 4-door sedan/wagons? It's a MINI for god sakes! Who buys one for trunk space !?! Taking these issues out of the C&D mix would have easily pushed the MINI on top of all others in the overall scoring.

Then again, C&D LOVED the new "exuberant" interior and hated how it was "twitchey in the twisties" (I thought the old schoolers hated the interior and the fact that it wasn't as twitchy as the old "Enthusiast's" car? Hey, but C&D said it, so it must be right, eh?). Not to mention the fact that they were driving a car with standard suspention, no LSD and who knows if either knew to turn the Sport Button "on" (though somehow, after having driven with a number of motor journalists through the years, I doubt it ).

R&T ranked the MCS low in all the individual subjective handling catagories (driving excitement, engine, gearbox, brakes and ride)... but ranked it highest in "Handling". Hmmmm... see some conficts with this :impatient ? Again with the same spec'ed car as above no LSD, standard suspension and sport button, maybe?).

Hey, but maybe we're all seeing what we want to see in these articles, right. I just don't think it's the "doom and gloom" scenario many here seem to want to paint.

I wouldn't be fooled into thinking the MINI isn't still the car you'd take to the track just 'cause big corporate magazine didn't print it. Spec'ed similarly, the R56 will eat the R53 for lunch on the track or autocross course. As the mods begin, you'll be seeing it overtake the JCW and eventually the GP will fall off the performance pinnicle as well. It's the nature of progress, I guess.

But hey, the R53 will always look aces! I love 'em all.

True... but can you see how people might be getting the impression of you as a "basher"? 130 posts (give or take), after buying a R53 JCW - your first MINI - in December 2006. Of your posts more then 95% are in the R56 forums. A car you don't own-or have any interest in owning. Most of those posts (as well as posts in the General Discussion forums) have somthing negative to say about the redesign, engine faults, or negative business model you believe BMW to be following.

No offense slag... but there's a point where its hard for anyone seeing this pattern not to come to that same conclusion.

 

Again: here is the break down of the real numbers for MINI for April 2007:

• The R56 by itself sold 2673 units in April 2007
• Left over R53's account for another 40 units sold in April 2007
• R53 convertible sales add another 666 units sold in April 2007
• April 2006 sales number was 3313 units
• Total sales figures year to year are up 69 units for April 2007

Second full month into the new R56 launch and the total numbers are up year to year 69 cars. Strip off the R53s sold in April 2007 and you have a April sales number of 2673 R56 units sold... resulting in the large inventory numbers of R56s sitting on dealers lots. Large inventory drives lower prices....

I will post the May figures as soon as I have them...

 

I haven't glossed over anything - the car finished 3rd and 4th. I have both magazines sitting next to crapper.

......and the WRX finished last. The GTI tied it in acceleration and the C&D editors liked it's handling better. I would say the NASIOC guys can make the argument that C&D should have ranked the Rex higher because it smoked the Mini and the GTI. Performance is only part of the equation.

Hmmm - "Playskool controls" kinda sounds like a bash. Unless your 6 year old kid is buying the car - right?

The interior, with the exception of the speedo is an improvement in fit, finish and materials over the old one. I can make the argument that the WRX with performance tires may have finished higher in the rankings - but like your argument regarding the LSD, the sport suspension and postulating whether or not the editors from R&T and C&D knew how to use the sport button - who cares? The car, in two comparos, by two separate magazines has been beaten by the GTI and MS3 - period.

Maybe the skid pad numbers were good but the feel sucked. Read the MT article on the Ten Best handling cars and see that just because a car can hang some serious Gs doesn't automatically mean that it's the best handling car - for a number of reasons.

No doom and gloom. The Mini finished 3rd and 4th overall -period. Nobody wants to see the company look bad. Hopefully the R56 JCW will help the Mini rank higher next time.

No doubt - when the full R56 JCW kit comes out, it should smoke any R53 iteration made.

But back to the sale numbers. During the 5 year run of the R53, all of the Norcal dealers with the exception of East Bay Mini sold their cars with a mark-up. Now Mini of Mounain View, Mini of SF and Mini of Concord have all switched to MSRP pricing with unsold cars on the lot. (I haven't checked Niello yet).

This by itself means little. But it is curious that in it's second or third month of release, the R56 is going for MSRP at dealerships that gouged people on the R53 for years.

 

Considering that March '07 #'s look like this (using Ian's figures from www.GBmini.net):
R50 Cooper - 383
R53 Cooper S - 266
R52 Convertible - 288
R56 Cooper - 1130
R56 Cooper S - 1159
Total R56's - 2289 in March
That's 384 more R56's sold in April... and 226 fewer R53's (if you're ONLY counting the S in your numbers if your only recording R53 MCS cars).

According to your figures... that's a 10% increase in just one month!

No one seems to be taking into account that a sale isn't recorded until a vehicle arrives at the dealership and financing/payment or a lease is initiated (NOT when they are ordered or spec'ed). So with an average order to arrival time of two months in the US, your just now going to start seeing sales figures for those who were waiting to order until they actually had the opportunity to see and drive the car in late February. Through March the sales have reflected a select few sight-unseen early adopters. I think the flurry of new NAM members in the R56 section are a good representation of this, as well.

***Again, somone link to a dealer with 100+ cars for sale on the lot (my dealer has about 50 R56's, but 44 of them are waiting for PDI and pick-up so only 6 cars actually for sale)... or a dealer giving $1000 off a new R56! Sombody said they were out there, I want some links... otherwise I'm beginning to believe this is pure BS.

<<<OK, and just for the record, there is no such thing as a R50 or R53 convertible . It's the R52 .>>>

 

Except that and R&T DID rank it #1 in "Handling"... and pretty much said all the things that you were mentioning that had been said about the R53: "...it was the most fun on the track... especially in the wet". "When it comes down to driving dynamics, it's very hard to find fault". So read the R&T article again the next time you go for your constitutioal (start at page 81)! They actually had some very positive things to say about the performace of the MINI (if you chose to see them).

As far as the C&D article ... I think this says it all: it has "that go-kart feeling so typical of the MINI... the clutch is snappy quick, the brakes abrupt, the steering is darty and the ride is nasty". All observations that are either contrary to what the MINI die-hards have observed, OR EXACTLY WHAT MANY WANT OUT OF A MINI !!! Just think: if the reviewers at C&D thought the "softened" R56 was darty and the ride was harsh... what would they have said about the R53 if it had been reviewed in this test? Somthing tells me your reading an article written by a writer who never liked the MINI in the first place.

Let the sales begin!!!

 

C&D has never been a fan of the Mini - dating back to it's introduction and long term tests. R53, R56, whatever, they have always tended to have issues with it being a poser car.

As to the R&T article, we can go back and forth on deciphering every bit of info posted - the point is that it ranked 4th out of 5 cars. I'm glad that they liked the handling and chassis dynamics - and I'm sure that if BMW really pursues it, they will produce a top end JCW kit that will smoke the other competitors.

My neighbor works at the local BMW/Mini Shack and we spoke this morning at the local Peet's about the sales of the new Mini. His response was that sales have been slow at every dealership for every marque all over town for the last month or so. In regards to specific Mini sales issues, he wasn't aware of any (he works on the BMW side of things).

One thing he mentioned, and it has been touched on here, is that they used to have issues getting Minis during the R53 years due to production limitations and the fact that demand here in California is high. His theory (and he said he'd talk to the Mini guys) was that if demand stayed the same and production ramped up, the scarcity issue goes away.

While this won't drive down the demand for the car, it would make it easiuer to buy one at MSRP. In the old days, if you wanted one at MSRP, you had to go to East Bay and wait half a year, or buy one out of state. Now that East Bay has cars on their lot, the other dealers can't shrug customers off so easily and have to sell at MSRP.

 

EXACTLY! The "playskool" control comments, and wierd ergonomics??? I don't mind a little harmless quirkiness-I actually LIKE that. Not something bland and cookie cutter. If not-why bother???

GIVE ME A CAR THAT DRIVES!

 

19% up in April.... that number reflects the cars that are actually delivered, right? I ordered in March and put $1K deposit down but I could still not buy the car in July when the car arrives. If I take a delivery of the car in July, my purchase will be recorded for the month of July, right? Just making sure....

 

I drive a Honda and so dependable but boring. For me to get in another car loan I want something totally different and that is what I am buying.

 

This is kinda where I was coming from when I bought my '03 Cooper. The price was right, but the MINI was also something special. Little did I know (at the time) how special. Fast-forward four years...I'm getting another MINI, thanks!!!

 

correct.

 

Yep, that was one of the points I was trying to make, too.

US R56 sales numbers through the end of March, beginning of April are representing buyers who purchased the R56 virtually sight unseen... at least not in person (considering the late February release date and average two month wait).

 

Right--I made this point, too. Not until June or July will the sales figures start to match "real" sales. We bought our car at a time when the salesman couldn't even guess what the interior looked like. We spent quite a bit of time puzzling over the configurator in the MA's office and trying to decipher the pictures and interior choices. At least I knew what the exterior color would be!

At the time our MA could only tell us the pure statistics, but of course he hadn't driven it either. Not until February did he put his hands on one...