What is shocking is the ~$357 per Lb-Ft [$2500 installed and 7 Lb-Ft gain], yowza!


--->msh441: where did you read a 30 lb-ft gain in overboost?

 

Let's see....

1) factory options are expensive per unit improvemnet.
2) Mini parts and aftermarket are expensive.
3) 200 hp is too much for a front wheel drive car.


Seems all these things are like fasion trends... They may go away, but they always come back!

Matt

 

No way man! Now, if you were saying that ~350 HP is too much, I'd be more apt to agree, as I know what it feels like.

 

just commenting on thier never ending re-currance!

Matt

 

Gotcha! It's all good.

 

seriously, where are you getting your numbers? there is only a 7lb torque increase. if it was 20lbs or the monstrous 30lbs you state then yep, that would be great. The stock r56 has 192lbs torque in overboost.

 

It's an easy way for MINI to make up for the loss of the R53 JCW aftermarket package. For me the stock MCS will be enough. Remember this product will not add any trade in value in the future.

 

Not true for factory options. While that was true for the dealer install kits, its not true for the 06 cars factory installed. Its just another option box checked off. Check out KBB, JCW IS listed as an option that retains some kind of value.

 

Yeah... sure it won't...

 

While the compression ratio is relatively high, we have direct fuel injection to help cope with that - a completely new technology on the MINI.

We are boosting the Elise/Exige to 7psi with 11.5/1 compression without direct injection, and it is coping just dandy. That motor is similar as well - all aluminum. To go more than that, we are sleeving the cylinder and dropping the compression, but with the Prince, I don't know that lowering the compression will be necessary with DFI.

Getting really excited! New R53 stuff to play with and a whole new car to develop .

Randy

 

Yeah... sorry about that. As I tried to explain elsewhere, it was a conbination of bad math, lack of sleep (switching from swings to graves this week) and just plain misreading the figures (I think I looked at the HP numbers and though that was the torque figure - pre-overboost). My mistake.

 

You won't have to lower the compression up to a certain boost level; flow rate is another situation, so a high efficiency turbo is really the key to success with the Prince engine with stock pistons. DI does help, but only so much. In the end, we won't be able to run as much boost with the stock Prince as the stock Tritec, and that means not as much power. My initial calculations say a rough power celing estimate of 290 HP running on the compressors' peak efficiency island. To get more than that, we'll need to swap pistons to lower the compression to 9.0:1 or so. That would allow us to get the most power possible out of pump gas.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

Exactly. The turbo efficiency is definitely the key. I was saying that unlike other motors with high compression, we can get away with more - up to a point - with the DFI.

 

is running 10.5 to 1 compression, any clue on the boost? I thought it was 10-12 psi, but may be wrong on that one.

What will be really interesting is to see what we can do (and screw up) when we get the keys to the direct injection code...... That's where the "new" action will be, and it will be a real pain to optimize.

Matt

 

Randy: Many other sport compacts on the market are now DI/turbo.

The VW GTI is running 10.5:1 and is DI, the Mazdaspeed3 is running 9.5:1 and DI, and the Pontiac Solstice GXP is running 9.2:1 and DI.

That said, APR is marketing they can get 252hp and 303lb-ft at the crank on the VW GTI 2.0T with just an ECU flash, however they don't disclose anything regarding boost or how much it's banging against the knock sensor. Scale those figures to the 1.6L and it's 202hp and 242lb-ft, which is right about where the old VW 1.8T K03 turbo maxed out it's compressor airflow-rate, and interestingly, right where APR tuned the 1.8T engine to! Fascinating stuff. We should be looking at the GTI to see what kind of boost levels they're pushing to with the stock engine and using that as a rough estimate with our own 10.5:1 CR GDI engine.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

Yep - and I have been looking to other tuners in those fields for advice. I was saying it is new to the MINI.

While I have a ton of experience with turbos, from Porsche, the Elise/Exige kits and the TK kit for the R53, I didn't have much with DI. I am learning a lot about it from those in the know - and I'm glad we have the guys at APR and MazdaSpeed to learn from (I don't have to be a complete guinea pig!).

Randy

 

I did a quick lookie on VW Vortex. One owner was saying his Revo Stage 1 tweaked MkV GTI is pushing "20-21PSI"! OMG that's crazy! There were some other owners with a "chipped" GTI reporting 16 to 18 psig. That's still very high...it also means DI may be more effective than I imagined!

 

The folks I've been talking to have been talking 1 bar or so (14.7 psi at sea level) - I think more than that may be a bit too crazy for my conservative taste!

Randy

 

I agree Randy; ~15psig is a safe figure for keeping the bonnet from blowing off.

 

i have a APR tuned GTI. The stg1 kit gets the boost upto 18psi and holds about 15-16 range based on my boost gauge. With the full tbe (200 cell cat) and stg2 flash I am peaking 20-21 psi. No additional cooling not even colder spark plugs. I had my dv replaced ones with the superseeded part. I can get some graphs to you guys based on what data you would like to see as i have Vag-Com and record datas easily.

 

--->ScuderiaMini; that would be fantastic to see some datalogged info of your GTI! It's great to have a kind of "sister engine" that is also 10.5:1 CR, turbo, and GDI!

 

Not only is the charge cooling much, much more effective, but the possibilities with stratified charge tuning will be huge! It's just I can't really see a fast way to optimize it without some cheating from people who have really worked on stratified injection system developement.

Just think, people have been really tweaking port fuel injection since the late 70s to early 80s (yeah, it was around earlier, but not in huge numbers on low priced cars). So about 30 years experience. Now we've got a whole nother beast to learn to tame. And direct injection has been in the market for what 3 years or so?

Matt

 

To date I've been attributing the effects of DI as if you installed a water or methanol injection on a typical port fuel injection system. The effect allows you to run 2 to 3 psig more boost than without the meth. That would mean it allows you to run an effective compression ratio upwards of 22:1 whereas with a decent port injection setup [w/out meth] you were limited to about 20:1 with pump gas [93 octane]

DI has been around for quite a while in diesel applications, however that's a different sort of ballgame. I know Chrysler did a prototype GDI engine back in the mid 80's [which also had camless valve actuation!], so the OEM's have some good data to start bringing GDI to market now that the technology has become more affordable and feasible for production.

Cheers,
Ryan